Comments

where's the discussion you mention?

Posted by Frank Patrick at December 4, 2004 1:50 PM

About 19 posts down!

Posted by Steve Yastrow at December 4, 2004 5:13 PM

Frank: Orginal posting is HERE..

http://www.tompeters.com/entries.php?note=007061.php

In continuum ..

Elisha said :"Going against the grain of customer status quo mindsets"- Would this mean rubbing the wrong shoulder on the customer ??

Bruce brings about an intriging q. You say :"PRODUCTS/COMPANIES/PEOPLE/SERVICES fail. " So does this mean that the core service of marketing fails. LEts equate 1 on 1 for the discourse. What fails ?? products, people of services (sic..marketing !!! )

Tom has a fun reading the thread:"the most fun I've had in weeks" . He's the guru !! :)- He actually says.." The key to growth is the introduction of higher dimensions of consciousness into our awareness"...

..and Brian brings out an ultimate hypothesis ..on the fact that the marketees don't implement the plan, that the 'marketor' envisioned...Brain, regardless who does what, should the succesuss/fail be embedded within the plan itself, with total ownership being evenly distributted between both parties , marktee's and marktors ???

Posted by /pd at December 4, 2004 8:38 PM

Engage the heart and the brain--both sides of each--and the gut. It's not marketing that's great. It's marketers. People who create (as in innovate) images that generate reactions in the brain and body, including the gut, are the ones who capture the bigger share of hearts, minds, and markets. That includes engaging the primitive part of the brain that earlier and hairier versions of our species relied on for their judgments and insights--actually in-scents because it's the part of the brain that relies on smell. That part of the brain, and we still rely on it, sniffs things out. If it smells fishy, forget it. Great marketers engage hearts and minds--and noses.

Posted by Dr. Pam Brill at December 4, 2004 11:01 PM

Marketing resonates with me if it is a lifestyle that is being sold - like the Rolex lifestyle, the Nike active sports life, the Lexus designer/safety lifestyle, et al.!!!

Posted by Freeman at December 5, 2004 8:29 AM

Marketing CONNECTS people. It is this connection that relationships are built upon and sustained.

Posted by RantingRic at December 5, 2004 12:43 PM

Inauthentic organizations reproduce inauthentic marketing programs.

Posted by Connie Sartain at December 5, 2004 6:03 PM

Great marketing touches an emotion while speaking to a perceived need on the part of the audience.

Posted by Erick Blackwelder at December 5, 2004 9:08 PM

I think that marketing programs that succeed listen to the consumers first, then meet that need and cater to it. If they, the marketing programs, do not listen to the consumers in the first place, they fail.

We want fancy mp3 players - ipods. We want fancy tv's - sony. We want cheap computers - dell.

Just my 2 cents.

Posted by Chuck at December 5, 2004 9:17 PM

1)Effective marketing is truth based - it reminds or reveals a real or perceived benefit of the product/service/media. So the basis of great marketing should be a great product/service/media.

2)Effective marketing is ongoing and not just one blast of catchiness.

3)Effective marketing hits you at a gut level - you know it when you see/hear it.

Posted by Bruce Houghton at December 5, 2004 10:24 PM

These are great comments! Please keep them coming, and fill out the form at http://yastrow.com/forms/why_programs_fail.html

Connie's comment that inauthentic organizations create inauthentice marketing is so true ... people talk about transparency as it relates to financial fraud, but, let's face it, most companies don't commit financial fraud. The real issue with transparency is marketing related - your company's values shine through, for better or worse, whether you want them to or not.

One major reason marketing programs fail is that the tools used by many marketing people don't reflect the way customers make purchase decisions. It's easy to use the brute force of advertising and other one-way communications, but in most cases it takes a whole lot more to persuade customers than interupting their lives with powerful messages. Customers are very discerning and scrutinizing and look well beyond the promises companies make.

Posted by Steve Yastrow at December 6, 2004 12:32 AM

Marketing to me Steve is 1. sell me a lifestyle that is high-quality cool - Rolex, Lexus, and/or 2. save me money like at a big-box Costco, Wal*Mart, Lowes, IKEA, Home Depot, et. al., 3. keep me loyal, like Nordstrom, Whole Foods both do!!! Am I on the right track???

Posted by Freeman at December 6, 2004 6:49 AM

I totally agree with the drift of these discussions ... BUT I STILL LOVE AWESOME CREATIVE! Let's not go so overboard with the new stuff about connections that we throw out 75 years of, say, Ogilvy's (David , Himself) best! One of the reasons that we are "off" advertising, I'd contend, is that Clients & Agencies jointly lack the balls to do Truly Great-Provocative Work! (E.g., I loved--make that LOVED!--Dennis Hopper sniffin' Bo Jackson's shoes in the locker room for Nike, and was in the Stanford stadium in '85 when Steve Jobs-Jay Chiat ran, once only, the IBM lemmings-off-the-cliff ad.)

Posted by tom peters at December 6, 2004 7:51 AM

Awesome!!! The Apple "1984" ad sent an electric shock up my spine the 1st time I saw it!!! I think it was Apple or was it Nike??? A buffed lady runner anyway tossing a giant hammer???!!!

Same thing when I saw Maria marketing the Governator "10 things" on TV one Friday afternoon - she was soooooooo on point - it jumped off the screen and had me on an adrenaline high!!!

Posted by Freeman at December 6, 2004 8:18 AM

Great marketing often satisfies a human need, such as the need for significance (The Mini, Lexus, Rolex) or our need for connection (Starbucks). If the product or service makes that connection, the marketing, de facto, works.

Posted by David Porter at December 6, 2004 8:52 AM

"Awesome!!! The Apple "1984" ad sent an electric shock up my spine the 1st time I saw it!!! I think it was Apple or was it Nike??? A buffed lady runner anyway tossing a giant hammer???!!!"

No offense to you, Freeman, but a great ad is NOT one you remember 20 years later. A great ad is one that sends you to the store to buy the computer or the shoes (Apple or Nike?)

Sorry, I'm not interested in award-winning marketing. I'm interested in hearing the cash register ring. There are some notable exceptions, but there are far too many marketing types who ARE interested in winning awards and could care less how many tennis shoes are sold.

A good example of the exception is just about anything that Anheuser-Bush does. Ads are clever, funny, sometimes nostalgic (the Christmas ad with the Clydesdales), but they always leave you thinking about the product.

Spare me the creative b.s. There's an old saying: Nothing happens until somebody sells something! It's still true.

Posted by MikeB at December 6, 2004 11:13 AM

From above, we can conclude that success looks something like a pure and personal connection... words like "resonate," "jumped off the screen at me," "meeting needs," etc. (I think of this as akin to the sound made by two pure crystal wine glasses clinking together...) But in order for it truly to be a success, that has to translate into sales... doesn't it?

And so... the failure scenario starts with: didn't make a pure & personal connection (complete with all the lack of research, creativity, marketing resources, etc etc) and cascades out into: made the connection, couldn't deliver (pure logistics... as a Canadian Consumer watching USTV... this is a fact of life); made a connection to the wrong person (no cash to buy) or at the wrong time (maybe you need opinion leaders now, followers later).

And then, there's all the "made a connection" but it isn't "pure and personal." This works until your competition makes a more pure connection... (and maybe this explains all the utter crap we see out there... not enough competition...)

Posted by Terry Rock at December 6, 2004 11:22 AM

What do you think about this? The question is wrong...it's not "Why marketing programs fail?" It's "Why do marketing programs eventually fail?" and it is because they/we are not contextualizing consumers/our "true needs," ...our continued changing needs to improve our quality of life, our emotional futures. Companies aren't flexible in their programming / neurological understanding of themselves / consumers. That is why marketing programs eventually fail.

Posted by wendy at December 6, 2004 11:25 AM

When communication is a MONOLOGUE and the brand personality you show in every action is COMPULSIVE, the client feels bored when not invaded.

If marketing is the last step of the business process, it can not be a revolutionary tool, but a useful ACCESORY.

Posted by felix gerena at December 6, 2004 12:02 PM

Wendy when you say,"Companies aren't flexible in their programming / neurological understanding of themselves / consumers." the companys first must learn to understand themselves and then seek to understand their consumers is what I am hearing.. correct ?? Flexibility resides in the eyes of the beholder !! Should we change is what most companies dont want to do. the old disounur club syndrom..

After all "We are each of us angels with only one wing, and we can only fly by embracing one another." - -Luciano De Crescenzo

So for a company to really address the needs of their campign , they need to adjust their ways to engage with consumers such that the effective resonation is far beyound just a sale, rather taking both partners to a newer higher level..

Posted by /pd at December 6, 2004 1:54 PM

MikeB - creationism and innovation is where it is at in marketing/free enterprise. "1984" was Chiat's coming out party - designer 1st impact.

Posted by Freeman at December 6, 2004 2:29 PM

PD - Yes. I have a hyposthesis that the definition of marketing needs to be redefined to incorporate more of the left and right brain and to engage the long term emotional futuring of consumers and that corporations need to realize there are consumers inside and outside of companies. I also believe that programming needs to be contextualized and that consumers identities need to be integrated into marketing, not their attitutes. Consumers ontological makeups, not their attitudes and behaviors. I believe there needs to be congruency from the boardroom to the cabinet. I believe the question of "Why marketing programs fail?" is very broad and hard to define... but is anchored in the way we view marketing in general, the way we view i am the consumer/i am a consumer, emotional and obsessive needs, and so on and so on..... fun stuff like that.

Posted by wendy at December 6, 2004 2:38 PM

Wendy:Thanks. Interesting hypothesis.. Do you have more collatera, for a readup ?? or a link or posting anywhere ..could you send it myway or post the link here..thks in advance !!!!

Posted by /pd at December 6, 2004 3:00 PM

Do you recognize this slide? It's in one of Tom's presentations. It's a quote from Rolfe:

A dream is a complete moment in the life of a client. Important experiences that tempt the client to commit substantial resources. The essence of the desires of the consumer. The opportunity to help clients become what they want to be.”

BUT...

A dream is multi-dimensional, using all of senses – at least focusing on our primary learning senses, a dream is life, a dream not a complete moment – a dream and a complete moment aren’t a congruent possibility. This whole definition is wrong. Important experiences cannot be a dream. Desires, emotional futures, passions –those are dreams, that is what you are selling. Marketers are a conduit. You are not giving life to your consumers through your products, you are helping your consumers give life to themselves. We need to stop acting like we are responsible for their happiness, beauty, popularity and svelte body! And, start acting like we are the unbelievably powerful conduit that we are. We are the system from which the consumers can achieve their emotional futures. We are the tools and techniques they need to become our own successful dreamer.

BUT....
While marketers can enable us, consumers need to take responsibility for creating and achieving our own big dreams. We need to step to the plate ourselves. We have been letting marketers tell us what to do and then complain about it for time eternal. Consumers have let our emotional needs go unmet for so long we have forgotten about them. We are addicted to price-off, buy 1 get 2, weekly sales, deep discounts and every day low price. We have been frustrated and disappointed for so long we don’t invest or bond with any brand any more, private label looks good enough to me. ....We have to grow up.

Posted by wendy at December 6, 2004 3:10 PM

pd - no link, working on a book. do you have an email?

Posted by wendy at December 6, 2004 3:11 PM

wendy:slash-dot-pd-at-gmail-dot-com

Posted by /pd at December 6, 2004 3:48 PM

overnight viagra delivery without prescription "So for a company to really address the needs of their campign , they need to adjust their ways to engage with consumers such that the effective resonation is far beyound just a sale, rather taking both partners to a newer higher level.."

"to engage the long term emotional futuring of consumers "

"I also believe that programming needs to be contextualized "

"I believe there needs to be congruency from the boardroom to the cabinet."

It's really very simple why marketing plans fail. Just read the posts in this thread. Consumers want clean clothes, nice breath, a car that will get them to and from work without getting them killed, and athletic shoes that don't wear out the first time the kids put them on.

They want to get on the airplane in a reasonable amount of time and get where they're going, on time and in one piece. Southwest Airlines delivers what they want and are the only major airline making a profit. All of the others have "marketing campaigns." They tell us that if we put up with their lousy service enough times they will give us a free flight so we can enjoy more of their lousy service. Then we can be late getting to our vacation just like we're late getting to our business appointments.

We insult their intelligence with campaigns and offers that pander to the most base emotions, primarily lust. Believe it or not, most people don't choose their brand of beer or their make of car in hopes of getting laid.

The elitist idea that somehow a degree in marketing makes one qualified to understand the wants and needs of the American consumer is ludicrous. If you don't believe it, ask John Kerry.

A lot of so-called marketing "experts" should get on one of those Southwest flights and ask their fellow passengers why they're there. Visit a city in the south or the midwest. Go to Hardee's and see if you see any Playboy bunnies eating five pound death burgers. No, you'll see normal people eating normal meals, many with children in strollers or booster seats.

Take a good, long look at those people. Talk to them. More important, listen to them. Then go to the nearest mall. Do the same thing. Watch what they're buying. Those are the customers. They're the ones who pay our salaries.

Then, go back to the office and start thinking about what those people want to see and hear. What makes them tick? Forget about "long term emotional futuring" and give them a reason to buy your product. If we do more of that, we won't have to wonder why marketing programs fail.

Posted by MikeB at December 6, 2004 4:30 PM

oh..mikeb, i like your "stuff" but my definition of an emotional future is exactly what you are asking for...and more. so i won't forget about it. marketing is providing consumers with an improvided quality of life and the products and services we sell are the tools and techniques they will use to get there. we need to motivate them to spend their money, premium dollars over private label, so you want to utilize their emotional future and multi-sensory systems to engage them and active purchases. emotional futuring implies your know what makes them tick. see?

Posted by wendy at December 6, 2004 5:49 PM

Marketing communication increasingly fails because marketing departments are insufficiently involved in the genesis of a company's strategy.

This coupled with the increasing trend to see marketing as a cost centre (a direct result of the rightful requirement to measure marketing effectiveness) has created a disconnect between the customers and the company.

Accordingly it is unsurprising that the communication targets are being missed.

Posted by john dodds at December 7, 2004 5:03 AM

As Mike B. implies, you can't buy great marketing. You have to do it. (through performance and delivery)

Posted by Steve Yastrow at December 7, 2004 9:09 PM

Steve - agreed. But, I don't see anyone offering a solution. I see everyone saying the same thing...over and over again. Groovy, now what?

Posted by wendy at December 8, 2004 6:04 AM

how to buy viagra no prescription What is marketing programs don't work because most women and most marketing messages need to grow up! Right now they are both geared toward which woman is THE BEST WOMAN versus being the best woman you can be. We/women assume men are scarce resources and we battle each other for the "booty." Marketers play into the scenario by sending out messages that help us "put on our armor" and become THE BEST WOMAN / LIFE GIVER there is... and ultimately every program will run out of steam, due to disappointment and frustration...you mean I'm not THE BEST WOMAN?

Or what if we knew that most of our consumers were kinesthethic learners and we needed to add kinesthetic words to our messaging? We needed to communicate to her brain better.

What if we found out that women really wanted to learn how to communicate with men, not sexually conquer them?

What if we started to view marketing as an emotional science? See our consumers as part of our extended family? The integration of ideas and concepts...mathematics, physics, emotional science and business principles.

Posted by wendy at December 8, 2004 6:20 AM

Wendy, Demogrpahics proves that womenmake the most decsions on the end prodcut.From a home, car to the very grocerys that make up supper. I'll have to agree with SteveY comments. Gr8 marketing is about "doing it". No amount of upfront planning can get the product to that niche or posistion as required. Its all about having the passion of "doing it" (geee. whatever "it" is ..I really dont know).. but coming back to point of women and marketing, it just makes sound sense to have the marketing geared towards woman. The problem resides that most marketing strategies are developed by men, targeting the segment of women, without really understanding what makes the women tick !! So IMHO, for a marketing strategy to be secessfull, I for one, will only rally behind a women who heads the strategy !! After all we men have tried and have failed miserably..correct ?? and each time the male market stratgize speaks, I have to remind them to take the right foot out of thier mouths before the place the left foot there again !!

ITs tricky.. I dunna ..just a wild riff here !!

Posted by /pd at December 8, 2004 8:59 AM

Steve - linking the fact that people are distrustful of advertising agencies, CMOs last approximately 23 months in office and marketing programs eventually fail ... should we be looking at marketing to the marketers? should we be shifting our focus to internal marketing? is there more opportunity to be had by wisdom sharing internally than externally? is there a link between a company like Planetree and the treatment of its "internal consumers" and its final output? The basic ingredients of marketing..the wisdom needs to be shared internally first, the congruency needs to be installed with the first round of consumers, right? Understanding how to communicate with women in the office is just as important internally as externally. The integration of creativity and sexuality internally is just as strong internally as externally ...right?

Posted by wendy at December 10, 2004 7:44 AM

Here's a misalignment in marketing story: I've had a three accounts at the same bank for 15 years. I'm a good customer; I have good credit. The bank is currently running an aggressive ad campaign talking about how it meets individual needs of customers, and it features people I'm supposed to relate to -- and I do! I like the spots! But...a new "platinum" card from my bank showed up in the mail a few weeks ago --with a 25% interest rate!! The next day, I coincidentally recieved a generic mailing from the same bank offering a card with a 9% interest rate. This just reinforces my branding belief: You can spend zillions to convince me you "get" my issues, but poor delivery doesn't just waste the marketing budget, it sends customers packing. For my own satifaction, I sent a letter to the heads of cardmember services and marketing relating the experience. And I'm switching banks.

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Once they promise it, your antennae are up!

This is the banking equivalent of Sprint's "We Make Wireless Easier" empty promise.

Posted by Steve Yastrow at December 16, 2004 12:51 AM

Hi Christine!

Once they promise it, your antennae are up!

This is the banking equivalent of Sprint's "We Make Wireless Easier" empty promise.

Posted by Steve Yastrow at December 16, 2004 12:51 AM

/pd ... thanks for the digest! (Public thanks here, since I already talked to you via email).

Posted by Steve Yastrow at December 16, 2004 12:52 AM