Comments

Interesting Steve! Southwest Air hires people who are friendly, fun, smiling, say thanks & please - THEN trains in task details - have you heard that STORY about their Brand?

Lucky for some that Mom stressed optimism, manners and common sense!

Posted by Freeman at December 21, 2004 2:46 PM

Your test sounds the way Donald Trump's Apprentice works. Set up silly and unrelated opportunities to job a would-be candidate. I'd much rather see a situation where a candidate would do a task within the real job description.

Joel

Posted by Joel Heffner at December 21, 2004 3:11 PM

Joel,

Don't be too literal! In every job there are similar situations to "moving the ropes." I want people working for me who assume that things that look stupid actually are stupid, and then take the initiative to fix them, even if they have to break the rules to do so.

Posted by Steve Yastrow at December 21, 2004 3:31 PM

I somewhat agree with Joel. I'd rather this be a lesson for an employee to learn soon after being hired. Perform this test, then at the end of the exercise ask them why they did not move the ropes or applaud them for doing so. Use it as a lesson, not a requirement for employment.

Love the idea of "move the ropes" becoming an action statement. i.e. We streamlined our online ordering process in order to "move the ropes" for our customers.

Posted by Dustin at December 21, 2004 3:33 PM

I love it.
A better task for a managerial candidate would be to see how she reacts when when her employee takes the initiative to improve the customers' experience. Does she lay down the law or award kudos? Does she encorage her people to "own" their jobs?

Posted by Kirk Samuels at December 21, 2004 4:12 PM

Guess it depends on how much training you want to do for your new hires... and how much you think they will be able to really learn & absorb...

Some people may never feel comfortable with moving the ropes - even after you explain it to them...

Should it be a litmus test? Maybe not... I'd judge the non-rope-movers by their reaction when you explain what you hoped they would do. If they seem surprised, forget 'em. If they slap their foreheads and say "Of course!" go ahead and give them a try...

Posted by Dan at December 21, 2004 4:16 PM

I hope your next book is full of examples like these last ones...

Posted by felixgerena at December 21, 2004 4:56 PM

Hrm, while moving the ropes seems to make sense in the short term (yup, those first couple customers could walk right up), what if, while serving a customer, more and more customers start to line up? But with the ropes now in a poor configuration, you've suddenly created a negative experience for the rest of your customers. Would you like to be the customer who is interrupted while the salesperson corrals the crowd? Or one of those people in line who suddenly has to be told to "stand over there" so that you can set up your ropes properly?

Hardly seems like a good example to go by. I understand the point you're trying to make: "do your new hires want to think 'outside the box'?"

Posted by Jonathan Snook at December 21, 2004 8:11 PM

Great post Steve. Recently the great Philip Kotler was quoted asking the head of marketing of an airline - do you decide the uniform and training of your air hostesses, do you decide the menu, and apparently this head wondered how these came under his perview! I agree if you are a great marketing company every person must live and demonstrate the position. And it is this culture that must be checked for while recruiting. The rope is a good metaphor!

Posted by R.Srinivasan at December 22, 2004 12:05 AM

Thanks for all the great comments. My overriding thought is: don't take this literally. Think of it in terms of your company, your job, and the people who may work for you. Question the status quo, and look for things you can do to improves the customer's brand experience. Every person in a company has an effect, no matter how indirect, on brand experiences, and in companies that do truly great marketing no employee could stand to stand by and watch the company provide bad customer experiences.

The reality: Most employees won't move the ropes. They'll assume that "the powers that be" want the ropes there. But ... for those companies where each employee understands the power he or she has to create a better brand experience, the rewards are great.

You might say that most companies' employees won't move the ropes. Well, as Tom said that the Reimagine Summit 10 days ago: "If 99% of the people don't get it, your opportunity is 100 times greater."

Posted by Steve Yastrow at December 22, 2004 2:56 AM

A similar idea (and it may work for poaching employees from a company you're visiting, heh):

When you're visiting another company, wander around by yourself, looking a bit confused or lost.

Not in the reception area, but actually within the administrative offices. See who takes the initiative to come up and say "Hello, have you been helped? Can I offer any assistance?"

It always amazes me to see lost souls wandering around while their company contact is unavailable or doing something else. Anyone visiting your company, whether a janitor or a 'VIP' is a VIP and should be treated as such.

The employee who steps up and says "Hi, are you being helped?", especially when it's not his/her job to do so, is a good potential new hire.

P.S. In a larger company, when you do this, it often happens that the wanderer is another employee from another department - Bob the sales consultant, or Mary the comptroller. Great! You've just made a new contact, and made them feel welcome in your department at the same time.

Posted by Jonathan Cohen at December 22, 2004 9:06 AM

Isn't it strange that most of us agree about moving the ropes. Yet I venture to guess that in most companies, including the one YOU work in, the employee that moves the ropes would have the supervisor down on her for violating the standard procedure.

KSFO in San Francisco had a similar tale a few days ago, the whole brouhaha about whether or not to even say "Merry Christmas". You know, the C word. Anyway, a Berkeley teacher called in to say that, for their holiday program, she got creative in a liberally inclusive way and said "Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanzaa," etc., in English and Spanish, making sure everyone was covered. The next day, the Principal wrote her up for saying "Merry Christmas."

First point: Ye gads.
Second point: Why would anyone want to work for these companies that put the policies and procedures as more important than the people?
Third point: Are we any different with our employees?

Posted by Ron at December 22, 2004 10:57 AM

Love the phrase "move the ropes."

The interesting thing about the exchange between the two of you is that she was SO CLOSE to doing it perfectly. I give her high marks for a smile and a playful "cheater." That suggests intimacy and real human connection -- tons more than you'll get at most service counters. viagra with no prescription

But if she'd taken it just one small step further (which makes a BIG difference) and moved the ropes, she would have even Wow'd your discerning eye.

Posted by Sam at December 22, 2004 11:29 AM

Steve,

This may be a post for a different topic, but doesn't this unearth another issue? Why do you suggest to fire someone who hasn't learned a lesson that we ourselves had to learn at some point (or are learning/have yet to learn)? Seems like we want to hire people who have learned these lessons, but are impatient to actually create processes that encourage our employees to grow into this learning. Learn all you can before I hire you, then just produce for me.

The problem with understanding truth is we lose tolerance for those who have not been "enlightened." We see the speck in their eye, but fail to notice the plank in our own.

I know you don't espouse that philosophy, but doesn't this employment test suggest just that? I know, don't take it so literally.

Posted by Dustin at December 22, 2004 2:09 PM

Excuse me. Correction: You suggested not hiring that person. You did not suggest firing, as I stated.

Posted by Dustin at December 22, 2004 2:14 PM

Great imagery. Say you had to make the hire/don't hire decision based on a face-to-face conversation rather than visiting an airport or hotel lobby. What question would YOU ask to draw out the same conclusion...that is, would this guy or girl "move the ropes"?

Posted by Matthew at December 22, 2004 7:33 PM

Dustin ... good point about what people are expected to have learned prior to a job, and what they learn on a job. But is "moving the ropes" a learned or innate ability/mindset? Maybe people can be coached on the basics, but I've also got to believe that there are tons of people "born to move the ropes."

Mathew ... another good point ... what would be a good "move the ropes" type of question for an interview. Any ideas?

Posted by Steve Yastrow at December 23, 2004 4:48 PM

I think it is a learned trait. Unlearning is the issue. If someone hasn't learned that mindset, then you definitely want someone who isn't so entangled in policy-centric beliefs that it's incredibly difficult to cultivate a customer-centric mindset within them. So it's not so much whether or not they've learned the lesson, it is whether or not they are trainable.

Besides, if it is completely intrinsic then it would be pointless for you to write a book in an attempt to teach "moving ropes." So, for your sake I hope it is learnable. :)

Posted by Dustin at December 23, 2004 5:36 PM

I think a couple of people have touched on this but I think it is worth stressing. In my view it's important to hire the "rope movers" but it also vital to create a culture in your org where rope moving is supported and encouraged. If you miss either of these the other will die. You can employ excelent people but they will leave or become jaded in the wrong atmosphere.

One of the biggest eye opener moments about the importance of culture was on starting a new job. I was asked how I was getting on by my boss' boss. I talked about a great atmosphere and everyone being very helpful etc. His response was "Great but what are YOU going to do about maintaining and improving that atmosphere" What a WOW challenge!

For the record (and I know this is taking a metaphore far too literally!) but I would be impressed by the candidate who turned to me and said: I have noticed the rope situation, counted customers at various points in the day, talked to people of other shifts and devised a new rope layout that could be quickly shifted from long queue to short queue in seconds..... That would impress me!

Posted by PaulH at December 24, 2004 4:46 AM