Comments

The trouble is, the business plan, "Get into Wharton, go work for a big company, land corner office" is hardly an original idea.

Some kind of weird "Safety In Unoriginality" idea.

SIU may have worked... even 5-10 years ago. I think those days are over.

Posted by hugh macleod at January 21, 2005 7:22 PM

To think that, a qualification (like an MBA) defines someone; is akin to thinking that, having a knack for stringing together rediculous acronyms distilled from the latest management fads and touting them to non-thinking business automatons, constitutes an ability to create (or should I say Re-imagine) useful ideas..... Market that!

Posted by Captain Scrutox at January 21, 2005 8:05 PM

When I went to Northwestern they called it a "Master of Management." Nobody understood it, so now it's an MBA. They could call it Billy for all I care. My reason for doing it was that I was a Music Comnposition & Philosophy undergrad who went to work after graduation recording rock & roll bands in a recording studio. I needed a little grounding in business ... and I think my perspective was much richer than guys who had been accounting majors in college. Actually, I think giving up the chance for an undergraduate liberal arts education to study business in college is a really depressing thought.

Posted by Steve Yastrow at January 21, 2005 8:17 PM

What you're highlighting for us is that an MBA [which I suffered through as well...and can verify] doesn't help any of us SAY anything, because it doesn't teach us who we are and how to activate our talents. Let's take the new Coca-Cola classic campaign as an example, Make it Real. That was produced by thousands of MBAs, but it doesn't SAY anything, does it? When you aren't connected to yourself [Brand You] and you don't know your consumers, and you arent' congruent with your product you can't communicate your message and you can't create empathic bonds. ...that's not the current curricullum at the business school, maybe it should be, maybe that is a vision to shoot for, maybe that is my dent to put in the universe?

Posted by Wendy at January 21, 2005 8:23 PM

tee hee...i like billy.

Posted by Wendy at January 21, 2005 8:24 PM

I think that "Master Bullshit Artist!" is a more meaningfull term in todays current world. Those who can bullshit and pull thru ..are creating the oringal waves.. Mallcom -- Author of Blink is one of them.. radical bullshit..but changing the business facet. Yes, he's reached that $40K/pop market for a seminar !!

Posted by /pd at January 21, 2005 9:11 PM

Thank you, Tom, music to my ears ...

I have my MA Management (Healthcare) here in the UK so let me be clear. I am fully signed up to the value of post graduate study.

BUT ... I would suggest scrapping MBA's and replacing them with MST - Masters in Storytelling

Posted by Trevor at January 22, 2005 5:26 AM

I think it depends. May be the MBA becomes an entry ticket into the business world, sooner or later. I think what makes someone stand out is what he or she is doing aside of the MBA. MBA alone is too much thinking inside the box. But may be, someone should work first before embarking on the journey to get an MBA, something that is done in India frequently, as far as I know.

In the end, it is the mindset and the passion that one brings to the table that counts. MBA or not.

Posted by Andreas at January 22, 2005 6:29 AM

Andreas - I agree ... I would never decry qualifications ....after all ....I have them too ... I am a member of the 'club' ...

As to passion, to actually make things happen ....'Passion with a Side Salad of Process' is what I call it ...

Anita Roddick founder of Body Shop is a great example - passion for her idea was what made it happen ... Read 'Body and Soul' - the story of how she made Body Shop what it became.

Posted by Trevor at January 22, 2005 7:05 AM

The term "MBA" still carries the load of considering management as an administration task. It´s a grey name revealing the traits of the work itself. Why working as a CFO or as an accountant should be less exciting and colorful experience than driving an F1, a Ferrari, let´s say?

Posted by felix gerena at January 22, 2005 7:25 AM

I can’t help but agree and disagree in the same breath. While I love the imagery of our tier one schools producing 24 year old white males, clean cut, and espousing the theories of Drucker, Porter, and early TP like robotic machines. But let me take you into the fourth tier school where the vast majority of M—‘s are awarded. Last semester I taught a class where we add 20 students, 3 males, 1 white and ages ranging between 24-64. No, success here is not measured by buying a $1,000.00 suit and heading for an interview with Accenture or Bearing Point. Success is a 55 year old factory worker learning how to enter a calculation into Excel, success is 3 people buying their first computer 20 years after you and I did, and one person taking the skills they learned and applying for a new job. No, not a CEO position but an Administrative Assistant position at the local bank. Here, disruption is hope and hope is the foundational ingredient to dreams.

Posted by RTodd at January 22, 2005 12:11 PM

I will say more later, but for now I, too, am struck by "Billy." Hey Canadian pals, wasn't there a half serious effort a few years ago to name the non-Native American part of the old Northwest Terrorities "Bob." I loved that! Hey, I think I'll grasp the nettle and at least rename my MBA as "Billy," too--unless you object, Steve. ("Hey Client, it wadn't me that screwed that forecast up, it was Billy.")

Posted by tom peters at January 22, 2005 12:21 PM

In support of your thought about MBAs (and a slide in your subsequent entry about C-level idiots), two observations about the limitations imposed by hiring/deploying MBAs.

1. H.R. functions are a big part of the problem for big organizations. Their lack of imagination impels them, gravitationally, towards credentialism... recruiting MBAs (the label) instead of bundles of aptitudes (the talent). Parallel to "no one ever got fired for buying Microsoft applications", the H.R. functionary can always cite the credential as defense of a failed decision. Credentialism is a dead-end for hiring organisations, but a career-protection mechanism for H.R. staff.

2. With few exceptions, the argument for hiring an MBA is standardisation -- you know you're getting a unit that has this known set of features. You surrender Wow for standardisation. It's exactly parallel to the Q.A. movement. While Q.C. aimed to assure minimum or exceeding-that quality, Q.A. tries to assure an adequate standard that has low variance, even on the high-quality side. Hiring MBAs is the Q.A. of H.R. -- encouraging just-adequate-enough in a fruitless attempt to avoid noteworthy failure.

Posted by jeff angus at January 22, 2005 1:54 PM

Tom,
I noticed that you are proud enough of your MBA to include it in your bio. Apparently you didn't turn out so bad. Unless, of course, you are suggesting that your readers view your comments with suspicion and cynicism--since they are the rantings of a "Master of Administration."
Generally, degrees are less important than the impact you make with your life. I hope that is the message you are trying to convey.

Posted by don at January 22, 2005 10:41 PM

What about been "Doctor Amoris Causa"? That´s what happened to a friend of mine. See more at my Blog

http://www.felixgerena.typepad.com/

Posted by felix gerena at January 23, 2005 11:14 AM

Personally? I would love to have an MBA as a woman. Make it one from Harvard at that! While I don't think I would have a lot more insights--you can't beat working with patients dealing with terminal illness and athletes leveled from Olympic hopefuls to barely walking and kids and adults traumatized from life events most people can't even consider (nor would they want to) to educate you about the human spirit--but I do think I would have a lot more credibility with those good old boys who write the checks and invite you in for major consulting gigs. Chalk it up to the working girl in me who had to foot the bill for most of my education and didn't even consider applying to B-school. Then consider this--oldest daughter is studying Biomed Engineering and considering designing heart monitors the size of credit cards or attending THE B-school, second daughter is studying neuroscience and is considering becoming an ortho surgeon (in Aspen--we're diehard skiers with lots of surgeries under our belts and leg braces...) or THE B-school, Daughters 3 and 4 don't know yet what THE B-school is. But I'll bet they will be interested when they hear what it can do for your life. And while this is progress for women (that they have easier access to THE B-school and parents who encourage them to go there), perhaps it is a sad testimonial on our culture--that I have years of working with clients and even saving a few from real life-altering harm and I'm still dreaming about that stupid B-school...Actually, forget about it, I just talked some sense into myself. Thank you to Tom and Others!

Posted by Pam Brill at January 24, 2005 1:51 AM

Surely the problem here is what people do with the MBA afterwards in terms of their actions and attitudes - not the education itself.

What would be a good alternative masters level subject?

Posted by PaulH at January 24, 2005 4:36 AM

Could it be possible that people who assume that all MBAs are in one category are behaving like "i-words"? This illustrates one of the inherent problems with the "brand called me" thinking...if my "personal brand" can be laid out on power point slides, the audience is forced to rely on stereotypes to fill in the actual meaning. CEO=idiots; MBAs=clueless analysts; women=intuitive/inclusive; white men=insensitive to people issues...certainly many of us know people who are the exception to these so-called rules. Yes, I have an MBA, but in my undergraduate liberal arts days I remember learning that gender differences were smaller than the variations within a gender "gender specific" characteristics. Could this be true of other groups? Like CEOs? MBAs? etc.

Posted by Anne Libby at January 24, 2005 9:48 AM

You could say it all depends on if an MBA is right for you. It does open doors to companies that can't think outside the typical business school line of thinking . . . and then a combination MBA/free-spirit gets in and wreaks havoc, all to the company's benefit. The trick is to get through B-school and keep the personal wackiness intact.

(As you can tell, I'm in the Billy Club. And I wore jeans, t-shirt, and ponytail to my night classes. I miss my ponytail. My wife doesn't. Hey, she's never seen a pic of me with a ponytail.)

But MAJOR kudos to Jeff Angus for his comments about HR departments! TP, I know you're not a real fan of HR departments. Concerning hiring, it all comes down to who can lie the best on their resume, and the manager who's hiring ends up with cookie-cutter crapolas and the crazies don't even get through the resume mess.

What some companies do for "grunt work" jobs is to bring in a temp, and if that temp demonstrably has the talent, the temp is hired permanent. Hire a great person without HR screwing it up - I like that, I've done that. Wouldn't it be great if companies could hire MBA-type jobs in that way? If it's good enough for Donald Trump to hire these Apprentices and gradually weed out the lesser-performers . . . well, why not?

Posted by Ron at January 24, 2005 1:41 PM

An MBA is a means to an end, and an incredibly expensive option on a certain type of career. (No guarantee that it'll work.) I got me one, and it got me a job at McKinsey that wouldn't have been there otherwise. And they're not MBA bigots--McKinsey's done a great job of reaching out to non-MBA's as well. I worked with lawyers, microbiologists, violinists, et al. (Hey, it was the late nineties)

I loved business school-- talking about challenging stuff with smart people is my idea of fun. And no, I didn't think it made me Jesus. (And not even working at McKinsey made me think I was Jesus.) The kind of people who give MBA's a bad name would have been bad managers with or without the MBA. Getting the degree doesn't make you stop sucking at something.

The thing that makes you a good manager is entirely native to you-- passion or empathy or rigor. An MBA won't tell you that any more than going to Law school or Education School or a seminary will. Business school is fun, and it can teach you a lot. And yes, it does supply a common vocabulary (not that you need to go to B-School to learn it).

But avoiding B-School doesn't make you virtuous, anymore than going to B-School makes you evil. Put another way, an MBA degree has no impact on whether you're a jackass or not. (It just has impact on whether you have enormous debt or not.)

Posted by Adrian at January 24, 2005 3:53 PM