Comments

The poll is not foolproof. You need to use cookies and keep people from voting more than once from the same browser.

Somebody is having fun at the expense of your fun (er, research).

Posted by Dustin at March 16, 2005 11:58 AM

It´s a bit strange because most of the answers to your post were women supportive. Do those who have voted "women are lousy for science" think it´s just a political corretness matter not to say it publicly?

I don´t think so. TPBlogsphereland is a place of free expression, I am sure of that. Then what´s the explanation?

I keep thinking Summers was very wrong but 150 votes are a lot to think voters have not been very concerned with question.

Posted by felix gerena at March 16, 2005 12:04 PM

Perhaps women are just less inclined to do science, in the same way that men are less inclined to do flower arranging. There's probably just something hard-wired in there somewhere, and whilst there are a lot of exceptions, the wiring is present more times than it is absent.

Posted by Ian Howlett at March 16, 2005 12:13 PM

Maybe the poll is flawed. There's no real place to affirm the fact that you agree with him ~ beyond choosing the "political correctness" route. Maybe "Face it, women are lousy at science" is the closest answer to agreeing with some of what he said - or at least agreeing that it represents much of what you see in the current reality. If you look at your results only about 12% (as I post this) seem to be that upset by his comments.

But then again I suppose it's easier to "tar and feather" him than it would be to really sit down and address the very real problem of women being not as well represented as they should be. What's that old saying about killing the messenger.

Posted by steve at March 16, 2005 12:15 PM

A large number of responses came from b@a.com so someone was definitely working hard to anonymously skew the results. I would trash them and drive on.

Posted by Paul Davidson at March 16, 2005 12:20 PM

Just to prove my point, I just bumped up "Face it, women are lousy at science" to 50%. I shouldn't be able to vote more than once from this browser, yet I voted over a dozen times.

What answer would you rather see as #1 Tom? Just tell me and give me some time, it'll happen.

Posted by Dustin at March 16, 2005 12:22 PM

Sometimes I wonder if we are looking in the wrong place for the answer to the question. I wish I could remember the issue but Harvard Business Review had an article within the last few years on this very subject which would indicate some element of research and rigor was applied. The interesting point was how girls are treated in elementary school classroom. The article described how boys are called on more often in Math and Science than the girls and how girls are gently guided into other subjects. Oh, the teachers that were calling on the boys more often were woman not men in the majority of cases. Can you blame women (or men, or deans) for something that society has done for the first 18 years of their lives? Of course, since most Math and Science jobs will be outsourced, maybe the girls had is right from the very beginning. Go Art and Design early and avoid the rush.

Posted by RTodd at March 16, 2005 12:28 PM

When I was in high school more than half (probably 75%) of the smartest people (National Merit Scholars, Top 10% of class rank, State Science Fair Finalists, year-end award winners for top student in subjects of Math and Science) were, surprise, surprise, WOMEN. In college my female science and engineering friends excelled in their classes. The very best math and science teachers I have had in my life in both high school and college were women, not nerdy, pocket-protector-carrying geeks either. They were energetic, enthusiastic, brilliant communicators who were contagious in their love, curiosity and wonder at the structure of the universe.
There is absolutely no doubt, ZERO, NONE, NADA, no doubt in my male mind that women are as capable when it comes to math and science as men.

I didn't vote in the survey because the question was too all-over-the-place. None of the choices matched my opinion on the subject: women are as good as men in math and science; there are not as many women as men in high-level math and science position; all topics should be open for question and debate in science, academia and free society; people will use "outrage" and "controversy" to give themselves more power.

Posted by Kirk Samuels at March 16, 2005 12:37 PM

Uhm, maybe we are looking in the wrong place, but TP.com is doing it with insufficient technology. This is not rocket science. It is basic stuff.

The poll does not keep some immature individual from jacking with the data! Are Paul and I talking to a brick wall? This is worse than hanging chads! People can even mess up the data quite by accident. You might as well not have a poll at all. It is worthless.

Posted by Dustin at March 16, 2005 12:40 PM

THE MEASURES SHOW THAT women are "under represented" in scientific endeavors - therefore the choice is clear.

Posted by John at March 16, 2005 12:51 PM

I used to think it was not Women who are lousy at science it more that science was lousy at women

Now more and more science is showing itself to be lousy at attracting anybody. Recent reports in the UK show less and less students want to study science/maths etc - I don't know if it is perceived as too hard or not paying enough?

Posted by PaulH at March 16, 2005 1:05 PM

Dustin and Paul are right. Someone voted (and posted) a bunch of times to make a point. Speaking of rocket scientists, it doesn't take one to figure out who was using it to make a point and drive debate. He got you, Tom.:-) Toss the poll and move on.

Posted by Jennifer Warwick at March 16, 2005 1:48 PM

As pointed out above, there is the problem of the internet making the beloved process of gathering statistics meaningless, because it is so easily skewed. Maybe we need to update the stock statistics quote to "Lies, damned lies, and polls conducted on the internet."

If the entire skew is not attributable to deliberate manipulation, it might be in part that this option could almost be seen as so ridiculous that it could be a joke. If the polls on Slashdot (slashdot.org, stereotypical ubergeek blog) demonstrate anything, it's that a substantial amount of people will always select the "joke" option if it exists. Eg, when slashdotters were asked if they preferred the Eagles, the Patriots, or the "Insurgents", the Insurgents (?) walked away with 60% support.... :-)

On the other hand, Slashdot also makes sure that their poll results include the disclaimer: "This whole thing is wildly inaccurate. Rounding errors, ballot stuffers, dynamic IPs, firewalls. If you're using these numbers to do anything important, you're insane."

Posted by Phil Crissman at March 16, 2005 1:51 PM

While I disagree with the opinion, I think it maybe a correct poll result.

I won't forget the first time that I encountered sexism...when another man shared with me his view that our group was not performing well because of the majority of women in our group. I have seen and heard the same thing play out since then with men that truly believe that women are as a group inferior to men...if not in general, at least at some things. It's wrong...I disagree...but that attitude exists in 21st century America.

Posted by Chris Davis at March 16, 2005 5:50 PM

Long time reader, first time commenter...I posted an answer to the poll because I was more curious about the results at that point and what others thought, then I was about giving an opinion through the poll. viagra to buy in new york

I think that the poll option provides an interactive way for people to stay active with this website and keeps that conversation going in a hot topic sort of way. But scientific? Nope.

Posted by tim milburn at March 16, 2005 5:56 PM

The number of votes in this poll are (roughly) consistent with previous polls run on this site. Given the numbers, I'd be hard pressed to say that deliberate manipulation was going on.

Also, ALL options on the poll are equally susceptible to manipulation. Based on this, I think the result gives a good, if unscientific, representation of the opinions of the readers of tompeters.com.

(For the record, I didn't vote on the poll).

Posted by dave_c at March 16, 2005 6:49 PM

Hey, it's not just women who don't like science. Most people in the U.S. avoid science in college. The sciences are heavily populated by foreign born students.

I think the problem is way bigger than women. It's about education- from the fourth grade on. China graduates 10 times the number of engineers than the U.S. graduates. And they may start overtaking us in original research.

Posted by Bob Niederman at March 16, 2005 7:43 PM

Paul H: this is Classic Origaanl being Culled from you !!
"I used to think it was not Women who are lousy at science it more that science was lousy at women"..

thats WOW comment.. Kudos to u !!

tom: yeah...the the guys are just screwin w/your mind.. go figure .. deal with the foo and move on !! :)-

RTodd: The best way to make an assumption is to figure out how many HBS applications ..took the easy way (hacked) system to figure out acceptence status.. .. there were 140 debared/fubured (?) ..anyone has the gender equation ?? if so- pls pointer my way !!! viagra pharmacy price canada

Posted by /pd at March 16, 2005 11:28 PM

Really, the options weren't there for me. Do I want to agree with Summers? Maybe, a little.

BUT I actually hit those links you posted and read his ACTUAL comments. They did not equate to "women are lousy at science." Why not an option that said, "Maybe he's got something."

Basically, it seemed to me that he said there's a VERY slight difference statistically that turns out to make a big difference in hiring. That's believable.

But then, I also think it could be complete jibber-jabber to stir up a debate.

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Posted by Jason Kerr at March 17, 2005 12:10 AM

"Perhaps women are just less inclined to do science"
and what do you call cooking...magic?

I was the recipient of the Top Math Honors when I graduated in 1970. I planned in a career in Math.
but when I entered college there was no support. Women were suspected of cheating on exams and my male colleagues wouldn't talk to me. I think it had something to do with the size of my slide ruler.

Regardless, I still have my Math chops and surprise the men in the meeting when I show them my stuff. A few expect and respect my comments.

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Women are good at this stuff but we were not encouraged to dance at the ball.

Posted by Jane Stachowiak at March 17, 2005 9:40 AM

We're working on the multiple voting problem.

Posted by tom peters at March 17, 2005 3:31 PM

Good to hear. Hate to say it, but I think this thread is an example of how we overanalyze. It's like we're trying to figure out why a convenience store is losing money. We argue about the neighborhood's demographics, aesthetics of the store, product placement, employee friendliness, et al. Finally someone figures out that the cashier is leaving the register drawer open and people are taking out the cash.

Why do we make things so complicated?

Posted by Dustin at March 17, 2005 4:18 PM

Obviously women are very well represented in science colleges: are able to be solving a maths problem with one hand while with the other hand be solving a problem of a man classmate unpolite issue/s. Does anyone here imagine a better example of women's aptitudes for maths theory and practice together? (wait responses)
Also, please, do make mental space for this kind of things; you make yourselves and everybody a favour. Re-imagine, re-invent the situation.

Posted by Omara at March 18, 2005 6:24 PM