Comments

Yes, it's about connecting. And it usually isn't glossy.

Posted by Pam Brill at June 2, 2005 9:43 PM

Hmm.. Seems to me the travel agent made you feel unappreciated and Virtuoso doesn't make you feel special and neither understands the emotional commitment inherent in a relationship implies both parties are always free to come and go as they please. Is marketing a platform of "doing?" I don't "think" so ... Marketing is about feeling, executing the plans is about doing.

Posted by Wendy at June 2, 2005 10:14 PM

Wendy - whether it's doing or feeling, marketing certainly isn't something you can accomplish just by throwing money at it, n'est pas?

Posted by Steve Yastrow at June 2, 2005 10:23 PM

Wendy - one more thing ... let's debate! I do think marketing is a lot about "doing." Sure, customers create feelings about products/companies/services. Of course.

But marketing so often falls flat because the company behind the product messes up at the "doing" part. And, in the case of my (former) travel agent, they thought they could skate out of the doing part by delegating with dollars.

Posted by Steve Yastrow at June 2, 2005 10:47 PM

Steve, As great as some of them are, I have yet to find an agency or outside company that has the same connection to my business as my colleagues and I do.

A little over a decade ago I was brought in to work for a company that was having this same issue. They had outsourced their entire marketing effort to an agency that was 200 miles away in another city. When a new management team came in, they took one look at what they were getting and immediately decided to fire the agency and bring most of the effort in-house. The results were immediately apparent in terms of both cost savings (the agency had been ripping off the client in my opinion) and connecting the message to the audience. Sales increased, morale improved - I made sure the line workers were now a part of the process - and customers were enthusiastic about the changes they saw.

I think the reason that people pay someone else to do their marketing is that they see a slick agency presentation or two and immediately conclude that good marketing is some form of alchemy. The best marketer I may have ever met was a guy who worked a milling machine on a shop floor. He could sit down with virtually any customer and discuss their problems directly and in plain english and they always left satisfied and smiling. It was just what this guy did - he connected with the customer in a very personal way.

Posted by Andrew Hayden at June 2, 2005 11:10 PM

Steve - I work in logistics, which is another function that frequently gets outsourced. I'm not sure it's an exact comparison but I find the most common mistakes are:

a) when the outsourcing gets done, management assumes the carrier is some altruistic organisation with the customer's best interest at heart, when in fact it is a company that wants to make a profit from you;

b) functional management gets released when the operation is outsourced, leaving no-one to manage the carrier, no-one to liase with them on day-to-day business and no-one to ensure they know what's required of them and the way the business is moving - and get their ideas from it, too;

c) organisations often don't know how to manage an outsourced operation, how to liaise with them and what performance metrics to apply: there's a difference between doing it yourself and paying another company to do it for you.

Most times (certainly in logistics) it isn't about whether it's outsourced or insourced: it's about how well it is managed.

Posted by Mark JF at June 3, 2005 1:55 AM

I am with you 100% Steve - I would have to think - for less than one second - before deciding NOT to pay someone else to promote my work.

I hope my work promotes itself through outcomes.

The best reference one can ever get is from your customer.

The best electrician I ever knew never advertised - the best plumber I ever knew never advertised - the best hotel I ever visited never advertised - the best management consultant I ever met never advertised ... .there is a certain trend here don't you think guys?

Outcomes and customer references are all we need.

If we have to pay someone to promote our own work we have failed - there will just never ever be the same passion or emotional attachment - end of story. It is simple.

P.S. Next time maybe I shouldn't pull my punches quite so much :-)

Great topic Steve

Posted by Trevor Gay at June 3, 2005 3:19 AM

spot on mark! the management of the relationship between a company and their chosen marketing team, whether it be in-house or an outsourced agency is fundamental.

I find that optimum work and results are realised when there are well managed relationships, common objectives and plenty of of communication, for both in-house and outsourced marketing and advertising.

Posted by andy skinstad at June 3, 2005 3:33 AM

When you start a business from scratch and build it up, you love your customers because you understand on a very deep and meaningful level that without your customers, you wouldn’t have a business. All of the work you do, including every call you take, every letter you write, will reflect this genuine appreciation for your customers.

On the other hand, if you inherit $400,000 from your Aunt Mabel, decide a business would be a good investment and hit the ground with a state of the art computer system and four clerks, you might be wildly enthusiastic for three months, but once everything seems to be in order, you can manage from a distance. Maybe book a holiday for yourself and your family.

Now you've got four people trudging into work to "do their job" with you showing up when it's convenient, picking and choosing the customers with the greatest profit potential, influencing your staff to do likewise.

Along comes an offer from an online portal with a compelling sales pitch and you do exactly what you did before - you pay someone else to do your work.

I think the most important ingredient in any business, and in any aspect of business, is attitude. Everything flows from the attitude that is taken to running a business. If your approach to customers, every customer, not just the big ones, is to sincerely value their business, your customers will know it, with or without the glossy brochure, and your business will grow.

Now look at Virgin Atlantic and British Airways. There’s no question that the main reason Virgin succeeded and grew in a very competitive industry was because of the attitude Branson took to customers and in particular to marketing, from the competitive prices and striking advertisements, to the little bags with headphones and silver you could take away and keep. My point is that the size of the company matters less than the attitude that permeates the business.

I'm completely with Steve on this one. You don't "buy" the right attitude to your customers anymore than you "buy" a philosophy or a code of values or an outlook on life. Marketing cannot solve the holes in your business or the lacks in your business. If the substance isn't there, marketing can't put it there or really make people believe that it is there for more than a minute or two.

Posted by Noel Guinane at June 3, 2005 4:54 AM

Fabulous comments Noel

I remember many years ago when I was a hospital manager - a small hospital of just 20 beds - I hand wrote a reply to every patient that filled in the satisfaction questinnaire that I had designed.

It wasn't that onerous to me and I loved the feeling of personal contact 'through the ink in my pen.'

A few peers commented this was a waste of time on my part and I had 'better things' to do with my time as a busy manager. Therein lies the nub of the perception problem!

What complete crap - the reason I was employed as far as I was concerend was to do that sort of thing not spend time writing reports that no one ever read. There is nothing like direct contact with your customer - looking them in the eye and knowing you did a good job.

Posted by Trevor Gay at June 3, 2005 5:28 AM

I´m more persuaded day after day that the key for a successful marketing is to consider it as a personal relationship. The more personal, the more succesful. Period.

Posted by felix gerena at June 3, 2005 6:27 AM

Steve - if you want unconditional love, get a puppy as they say in D.C.

Maybe the travel people are firing you as a customer - they've had it with you and your tight muscle shirts all the time or something [just kidding].

A story - actually though some business people can easily fire customers and still thrive. As example I for some reason have a standing appointment every 3 weeks in lovely Santa Fe with a massage therapist - and she demands to be treated like an adored princess - that is the way she is.

Therefore, I certainly never act up - because she is so OUTSTANDING AT WHAT SHE DOES. And she has fired some clients. Business seems to be like that though - it pays to be in good graces with those talents you value.

Posted by Sean at June 3, 2005 7:33 AM

Steve i was wondering wether you really wanted to go on a leisure travel or not ? and guess if the Travel Agent had the same thing in her mind ? ( Joking )

Kiran Jain

Posted by Kiran Jain at June 3, 2005 8:23 AM

I take for granted those "virtuoso" brochures had nothing to do with Joe Pass, did they? ;)

Posted by felix gerena at June 3, 2005 9:46 AM

Sean, that's interesting. You're speaking there about someone who can give a massage like no one else. You're speaking about talent. How much are we willing to put with from very talented actresses, actors, opera singers, massage therapists (apparently!), you name it. Talent makes all the difference. Little bit different though when you're selling a service or a product and there are three shops just as good as yours, in direct competition with you, right up the street - and several hundred more a couple of clicks away.

Try firing your customers under those circumstances or demanding they worship the ground you walk on and you'll be flaunting a big red GOING OUT OF BUSINESS SALE sign in no time!

Posted by Noel Guinane at June 3, 2005 10:45 AM

Sometimes you've got to outsource the work, especially if you've got something big going on. I was reading about the approach 20th Century Fox took to marketing the latest Star Wars movie. They released the movie in all major markets all over the world on the same day which was unusual since us Europeans normally have to wait for the Hollywood blockbusters, as do the Asians. Maybe they did it partly to circumvent piracy, but I think also to make the most of a word of mouth buzz for as long as it was going to last.

They employed an army of marketing, PR and advertising consultancies worldwide and placed the emphasis on marketing promotions and partnerships rather than on advertisements in traditional media. Basically, it was all about creating events - "Star Wars" themed weekends at Disneyland Paris, "Star Wars" ice sculptures at the Sapporo Snow Festival in Japan, a marathon showing of all six films at theaters in Leicester Square for the London premiere, with the London Philharmonic playing the "Star Wars" theme outside.

In "partnerships", they persuaded newspapers to trade editorial space for access to "exclusive" content in the film. The mobile phone company, Orange, ran lots of promotions - one of them being Star Wars characters reading out text messages.

I think the main purpose of their marketing blitz was to generate a favorable word of mouth buzz simultaneously the world over which to me is the most powerful form of advertising for any business, large or small.

20th Century Fox knew what they wanted and it seems to have paid off - Sith earned more than $300 million in its first four days. Haven't seen the movie. Suspect it isn't memorable, but you've got to hand it to the marketing folks - they're getting better at what they do all the time!

Posted by Noel Guinane at June 4, 2005 5:17 AM

Hi Steve. I agree, sustaining connections and commitments are never about the money, delegating dollars doesn't work in a family nor is it sustaining in a customer or consumer relationship.

A true behavior changing, trust forming mechanism demands a set of assumptions. As you said, your travel agent didn't really "care," they just wanted your business and it came across loud and clear...it fell flat. They tried to assert with money and razzle dazzle, but in the end...flat, nothing sustaining.

The "doing" is always the fun part, let's think love making. But, let's always start by asking each other how we want to feel first. How we want to make our senses dance? How we want to feel like men and women?

Posted by Wendy at June 4, 2005 10:34 PM