Comments

People's experience with cars from American companies is probably enough to mess up the whole survey. Note I said cars from American companies and not cars made in America as Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW, and others make many cars in America.

Given that, most still think of "Made in China" electronic gadgets as those items found in the Dollar stores. Same for clothing and shoes. Compared to that, American made is high-quality.

On the Dell thing, maybe people just believe what their companies' IT support personnel tell them while their computers are being cleaned. Now if they asked about music players ...

Posted by Kevin at June 8, 2005 9:02 PM

I feel that a lot of it has to do with many American company's doing a poor job communicating their message, or doing a poor job with their branding. However, company's like Tommy Hilfiger don't have a major challenge with their...brand. Clearly, there are select company's that have their act together. Too many clearly don't.

Solution for these companies...hire me or one of the other brilliant marketers who contribute to this site for a brand overhaul. :)

Posted by Tony May / Mayday Media at June 8, 2005 10:18 PM

I would think another factor would be that it's fairly hard to find everyday items that are actually made in America anymore. Just because there's the perception that goods made in America are of high quality (everybody wants to think stuff made on their soil is best) doesn't mean the the pickins are all that great when you actually try to fill your shopping cart (real or virtual) with American-made goods.

Dell. Great company. Great business model. I think the big difference is transparency vs opacity. Anyone who has ventured to their Web site to shop for a computer vs going to Apple's Web site will find Dell's much more helpful and informative. The experience with Apple is opaque compared to a much more transparent Dell experience; what's inside an Apple making it work is more of a mystery compared to a Dell, which uses components (such as Intel chips) that are familiar to more consumers. AND Dell explains how each component or upgrade will affect your computing experience. All the pieces and parts that make up an Apple, while very innovative (maybe even more innovative than a Dell's, as any devoted user will attest) seem foreign, unfamiliar. Apple either assumes you know all about what makes a Mac tick because you are such a devoted user, OR they're simply depending too heavily on the trust value of their brand.

I think Wal-Mart's halo is partly the result of its capacity to feed the needs of a consumption-hungry society. If Wal-Mart (and other large discount retailers) can continue to fulfill our wants at a discount, we're more likely to give them a passing grade on such abstract concepts as corporate citizenship.

Posted by C. Bowman at June 8, 2005 11:43 PM

Certainly, Dell came out with an original business model that skipped the usual distribution channels and they've been very successful with it, but there's really no way you can call them innovative. Dell produces boxes with nothing new inside them that they've designed, including parts or software.

Posted by Noel Guinane at June 9, 2005 2:15 AM

C. Bowman, I should have read your comment before posting.

I've been to both Dell's and Apple's websites and I think there's no comparison - Apple's is incredibly informative and much easier to navigate. They explain very clearly how all of their components work, both on their website and in the literature you receive with any of their products. The manuals that come with their machines are refreshingly free of jargon clearly detailing how you yourself can install memory upgrades, graphic cards etc. In fact, the interior of an Apple machine, particularly the G5, is a model of simplicity. Upgrading the memory for example, requires no screwdriver. You have only to lift one lever, slide out two componets (a plastic case and a fan) and there goes your memory. You can upgrade your memory in a G5 in literally under two minutes, and this is their most advanced machine.

Take a look for yourselves:

http://www.apple.com/powermac/

If you still have concerns, you can go right into one of their stores and get free in-person advice on any of their products from trained experts, but you probably won't need to. I never have.

Transparency vs opacity? Dell buys parts from other manufacturers and assembles them. There is no cutting edge, innovative intellectual property to protect.

Posted by Noel Guinane at June 9, 2005 3:21 AM

Noel,
As you point out, Dell came out with an original business model which has been very successful. Isn't that innovation? I feel that too many times we stick innovation into a box that says that it's only valid where we invent new products.That's not necessarily true right?

Posted by fredd at June 9, 2005 3:27 AM

Interesting post Steve - thanks for getting my ‘grey matter’ working again :-)

Your question was; What causes the "high quality but I don’t want it phenomenon?

I don’t know the answer but part of me that says there is so much ‘sameness’ nowadays that only really outstandingly different products have a ‘special feel.’

In other words;

I can get a car within a certain range from a variety of providers. The cars all look much the same, cost much the same and they all work!

So what will get me to part with my money? Maybe it is the ‘value added’ stuff that is difficult to measure – personal service – little extra’s - god knows the answer.

They key to this whole debate - for me anyway - is ‘avoid sameness’ and you just might stand a chance.

Posted by Trevor Gay at June 9, 2005 4:53 AM

I agree and I disagree Fredd. Innovation means something new and better. It comes from good ideas - the light bulb goes on and with it a great big Aha!

Dell started out with a distribution Aha! ... And that was it.

Posted by Noel Guinane at June 9, 2005 6:16 AM

Thanks Steve...being a veteran of the Big Three, to me it is clear as far as autos are concerned. There was a huge emphasis on quality and productivity over the last decade, often in conflict with each other. Unfortunately, cost considerations and productivity moves have impacted design. Where innovation is needed, the constraints of "efficiecy" have trumped the creative process. An entitlement culture has pretty much excluded young designers from real decision making positions. It can be made with high efficiency and with high quality, but if the design doesn't get it...I am not going to buy it.

Posted by Mike Neiss at June 9, 2005 7:31 AM

The USA companies that I'm loyal to for some reason - like: Nike, Oakley, Dell, Lexus [just kidding], Nordstrom, Costco, Wal$Mart, Amazon, Microsoft, Cingular --- they all seem to resonate with enough quality/value - that I do WANT IT.

Key to me is that the EU/USA/India must move up the value chain fast. GM: why even have Buicks anymore?

I did buy an Infiniti FX though because the parts and assembly sites are all Japanese - and I want to drive it 200,000+ miles. Ford assembles some vehicles in Mexico as we know - WATCH OUT BABY - HEADS UP for a rollover! AND BOYCOTT ARUBA by the way - EU/USA tourists - please go elsewhere.

Noel and Trevor - I'm curious about which companies you are loyal to in the UK and why?

Posted by Sean at June 9, 2005 7:46 AM

I'd be more excited about 'buying American' if these things were actually made in America by Americans (cars excluded). Buying a computer made in Malaysia from Dell (an American company) doesn't do it for me. Buying a sneaker made in Indonesia from Nike (an American company) doesn't do it for me.

Now, cars, American car makers don't get it. They simply don't make cars that compare to European/Japanese cars in terms of design, performance, or reliability. At least, that's what an awful lot of people seem to think. Myself included. Think Buick...ewwwww

Posted by mike at June 9, 2005 8:37 AM

Noel,
I recently read an interesting article that was looking at innovation. According to the author, the good idea or the aha! is creativity. The execution of that idea is the innovation. If we agree with that classification, then Dell is surely an innovator in that they came up with the distribution idea (aha!!) and then they executed it to a degree that they bruised up other makers pretty bad.
Having said that, my gut goes reaction says that Apple is the better innovator between the two. It certainly is in product terms.And I would hand it to them in terms of experiences. So many times I have caught myself wandering into the Apple store on Regent Street in London simply to hang about...

Posted by fredd at June 9, 2005 8:47 AM

Sean, the businesses I adore, and to whom I devote my undying loyalty through good times and bad, thick and thin, rain or shine, come hell or high water, are those businesses extravagant enough to hire my services and then pay their bills - specifically the ones I submit : )

Posted by Noel Guinane at June 9, 2005 9:35 AM

Fredd, I'm certainly willing to agree with that classification. The inspiration is just the first step, the rest is hard work.

One of the reasons I love Apple is that they continue to innovate - they never stand still.

Posted by Noel Guinane at June 9, 2005 9:41 AM

Hi Sean

Great answer Noel! I have a similar view of the world.

I am very loyal to small companies/business that do the job for me as an individual or my family. I am a great believer that small really is beautiful as I have often said in TP discussions.

Big companies over here that I rate???? ...errr ...errr.... I am struggling my friend.

Egg (Finance) are brillant quick and friendly - I am impressed with their service.

As I have posted elsewhere there is far too much 'sameness' down the high street and it is difficult to identify anything that sets me alight from personal experience.

I have concerns that we are light years behind you guys in customer care - you know how to do that better.

I am a very optimistic person - but I am constantly amazed - no STAGGERED - and disappointed at the apparent lack of 'love' and care for the customer by a whole range of organisations.

Sorry not to be up-beat about this - just speaking as I find

Other Brits may disagree but that is my rant over for today :-)

Posted by Trevor Gay at June 9, 2005 10:03 AM

Growing up in a GM household, I am always biased toward buying GM. That being said, there are many other cars that I would rather drive, but the economics of the employee discount (for as long as my parents live) will keep me driving GM.

As far as "buying American," I'm not sure where you can find truly American made items. In this day many "foreign" cars have more "American" work in them than the "American" cars. Go figure...

One final comment on this topic, I think in many households the deciding factor is what is most affordable, not is it American. Many families in America live paycheck-to-paycheck (mostly because of their own spending habits), so when it comes time to buy a shirt, you buy the cheapest one that fits your criteria.

As far as Apple vs Dell and Innovation, I think you must decide on the area of innovation. In terms of service, ease of purchase, and sales model, Dell has been beating the pants off of every other computer manufacturer in the business. I have bought from both Dell and Apple, and my experience both with the product and the post-sales service were infinitely better with Dell. While Apple has definitely continued to produce "cool" devices, Dell has found synergistic product options that are self-branded and are continuing to increase profits in a small-margin market.

I know the Apple faithful will want to blast my opinion, but look at the PC market. Dell came on the scene late to the game, in a saturated market, and became the dominant supplier of PCs in the industry. The logistics model did not do that alone. Apple started fairly strong, but staggered through some dark times. The return of Steve Jobs has brought back the spirit of product innovation, but will that be enough?

Posted by Tony Brinson at June 9, 2005 4:16 PM

Tony, I consider myself part of the Apple faithful and I don't want to blast your opinion. The truth is that when Steve Jobs was ousted from Apple, I figured Apple was going to go downhill and it did. I loved my little Mac Classic. It was a gorgeous, simple, straighforward machine and utterly reliable. The thought of being forced to switch back to a Microsoft-based PC was depressing. When I heard Jobs had come back, I wasn't expecting much. After all, he'd 'lost' control of his company. But since he's come back, I've been amazed at the quality of products that Apple have produced and I'm not alone here. This is not a cult like Microsoft. People from both sides of the fence, and every critic you care to mention, have had to hand it to Apple.

The reason I love my Macs is not because they're 'cool'. It is because they are such a pleasure to use. They are not only reliable, which for spoiled Mac users is a given, they are also aesthetically pleasing. Anyone can build a computer. You could set up a business and buy the parts tomorrow. But if you can build a computer that's better than anyone else's, and I'm sorry, the Macs really are better machines, and do it with elegant style, then that's innovation.

No one is disputing that Dell and Microsoft are big businesses with a ruthless edge to them. For me that's the starting point in business. The innovation Apple brings to the table, and not just its product line, but its distribution model which is every bit as good as Dell's and also happens to include retail stores, is in my view going to give it the edge over Dell.

When the playing field is level and the clock speeds are the same, your Dell machine running Longhorn, assuming Microsoft manages to release it before 2007, will not perform as well as a Mac, especially in high-end graphics and sound. You may well find yourself in the position Apple users were for years - justifying your equipment - with one significant difference: your machine really will be inferior on all counts. As Steve Jobs said, if the casing and the chips are the body of the computer, then the operating system is its soul.

Posted by Noel Guinane at June 9, 2005 5:45 PM

Here's a crazy thought for all you Dell lovers out there - what if Apple made OS X run on any Intel chip, or a high-end Intel chip? Appreciate this is hypothetical, but how many of you would be willing to spring $99 for Tiger?

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http://www.apple.com/macosx/

Of course, it would be Leopard, the next major Mac operating system, due to come out just as Longhorn makes its debut.

Posted by Noel Guinane at June 9, 2005 6:11 PM

I don't want to get into a "religious war" which is what these tings turn into, but if you want to compare Apples to PCs, I'd be happy to, but I'll leave Dell out of it.

The reason I say that is because I can build a machine myself (which I am using currently) that has better components for graphics and sound than the Mac has and out perform the Mac with no problem. For many years, Macs were superior in graphics and sound to the PCs, but that just isn't the case any more. Granted you have to actively seek out the superior components, but when doing that you have much greater freedom of choice for your PC vs a Mac.

I've often felt that this was the biggest drawback for the Mac. The reliance and dependence on Mac hardware and Mac software with no one else doing any innovating. I do love the MacOS X and its UNIX core, and I would LOVE to see it ported for Intel (coming sooner than many think). The new OS is clean and has all the UNIX services with a sweet front end. If you want to discuss innovation, Apple's porting of the NEXT OS to MacOS X was the best thing they ever did. It's just too bad it doesn't run on more hardware.

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Posted by Tony Brinson at June 9, 2005 9:06 PM

Tony, nice to see that your answer is YES! for Tiger. Good for you. You’re right about the religious war - I had no idea there were so many Dell fanatics ; )

Technically, you can't change the rules of the game midway through it by leaving Dell out since that was our comparison (some people might even be rude enough to call it cheating!), but I will let you because I know that there is no way your spare parts computer can take advantage of the many Apple innovations I am about to mention.

What’s really exciting in the computer business is not actually happening right now in the processors; it’s happening in the graphics cards, the speed of which are doubling every six months. Apple has recognized this, and being on the cutting edge, has built their innovative Core Image technology right into the heart of Tiger to take maximum advantage of the graphics card. This technology is not available to any other platform other than Mac OS X Tiger. And what it means is that calculations that previously burdened your computer’s main processors and slowed them down, are now done exclusively by the graphics card, which gives you a much higher performance.

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A G5 using ATI’s Radeon X800 XT can run one of Apple's 30" Displays and take full advantage of Core Image. Windows-based PC's do not have this innovative technology, though they do use Apple's innovative USB and Firewire technologies. You cannot run Final Cut Pro or Motion or DVD Studio Pro or Logic Pro on a PC - groundbreaking innovative new software designed and built by Apple for Apples.

However, I am not a high priest techno geek - thankfully you don’t need to be when you buy Apple - and I could be wrong. Maybe there is a spare parts PC you can build that can run on Windows and rival Tiger at the same time. Please tell us the exact specs of the machine you're using including the operating system, graphics card and the programs you’re running.

Posted by Noel Guinane at June 10, 2005 3:06 AM

Just read in Fortune (thanks Halley) that Michael Dell is saying he's interested in licensing Apple's Mac OS.

Here's the article:

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/fastforward/0,15704,1072719,00.html

Posted by Noel Guinane at June 20, 2005 11:45 AM