Comments

Halley - this is a valid problem to highlight but why do you want to know what other women think about it? There are a few men amongst us who help out in the kitchen or do a bit of cooking and who also find this an irritation: is our opinion somehow invalid??!!?!

Posted by Mark JF at July 12, 2005 2:05 AM

I know this doesn't address your larger question, but there is a practical alternative to tuna fish in a can: vacuum sealed packaging. I've made the switch from cans and so far am happy with the decision. I've seen multiple suppliers that provide it, but here's one as an example (search for "no can"):

http://tuna.com/products_fam.jsp?famid=1

Posted by A at July 12, 2005 3:05 AM

But you have to pay considerably more for the tuna in the plastic bag, at least at my local food stores.

Posted by Mike at July 12, 2005 6:08 AM

hi
im dillon
im from ireland
over here almost all cans now have a can opener built into the top of the can
the same style as a can of coke
you just pull the pull-ring and the can opens
no more can openers and cut fingers

Posted by dillon at July 12, 2005 6:55 AM

Yes, I've seen those pop-tops and the paper envelopes, and they are so much better.

Posted by Halley at July 12, 2005 7:21 AM

Should making lunch be full of danger? Possibly - new sport - "extreme cuisine"?

for other domestic extreme sports:
http://www.extremeironing.com/

I am pleased to say Extreme Ironing is a Brit invention and I believe that we won the world championship last year (one sport we can win at). It's also good to note that EI is taking over in different countries so it not just the UK that is totally potty!

Posted by PaulH at July 12, 2005 7:34 AM

Hey, Halley, I'm still interested to hear your views on men's rights in the kitchen!

Posted by Noel Guinane at July 12, 2005 8:05 AM

There's a really cool gadget product that costs $2 or $3-- it's a tuna press. It's plastic and fits in a tuna can to squeeze out the water. You can find it at Bed Bath & Beyond. At this point in my life/career, I'd much rather pay for tuna in a can than an envelope.

Posted by Tim at July 12, 2005 9:15 AM

Hey Halley,

I'm with you all the way. A few companies (like Starkist) are starting to get it, with vacuum-sealed bags.

It amazes me that more companies aren't taking advantage of the 'how can we help women" opportunity. The big product success has been, of course, Sherwin Williams, with their Dutch Boy paint containers. By simply putting paint into wide-mouthed jugs (like detergent), they tripled their revenue in the first year.

If businesses did nothing other than focus on "how can we make this easier/safer/more fun for women" they'd increase their revenue... and brand loyalty... exponentially.

Posted by Michele Miller at July 12, 2005 10:28 AM

Sorry but what has this got to do with Women!? Is it just that us ego bound males refuse to admit that we struggle to open basic packaging so everyone thinks everything is alright! - Believe me we struggle too! Oops that is to say, erm, that other less capable males may struggle. I of course have no problem myself you understand.... (sorry my male ego slipped there for a second!)

Posted by PaulH at July 12, 2005 10:43 AM

Starkist now makes it in bags. Same quality, same stuff, no mess

Posted by Andrew at July 12, 2005 10:52 AM

Great advice, Michelle, but why not make products that are easier/safer/more fun for EVERYONE rather than just women? After all, lots of men cook, enjoy it in fact. Many of us even do the shopping. So why specifically exclude men? Are you really willing for the sake of a quick buck to perpetuate patronizing stereotypes, turn the clock back a hundred years, and chain women up in doors - cooking, cleaning, painting, having babies, ironing - with their only relief from this mundane existence being those mundane ads targeted especially at them to mundanely maximize the efficiency of those mundane chores like, for example, opening endless cans of tuna!

Posted by Noel Guinane at July 12, 2005 10:57 AM

Paul, I should have read your post before posting my post. See you've covered this one. Still. we men can't allow ourselves to be so blatantly discriminated against. Brothers-in-arms against the fearful domination of women armed with spatulas, rolling pins and the very latest in tuna can opening technology.

"I said: Get into that kitchen." "Haven't you finished those dishes yet?" "What about the vacuuming?" "Change that baby's nappy!" "Make it snappy." "C'mon, I don't keep you around for nothing!"

Posted by Noel Guinane at July 12, 2005 11:04 AM

Anything that says "tear here" - and proceeds to spill all over the place when you finally wrestle/bite it open. Or those little foil-topped/tearable medicine packages on which you always break your nail.

Don't even get me started on the plastic packaging for things like curling irons, memory cards or small electronics. You need a machete to get those things open - and work gloves so you don't accidently slice your hand open on the ragged plastic edges.

And would somebody please invent a manual screwdriver that is hand-friendly? We don't all have big burly calloused hands.

Posted by Elizabeth Albrycht at July 12, 2005 11:59 AM

In the world created by men, yes, it is a dangerous one. We women suggest things such as restrooms. I travel every week an why are restroom stalls so small? Ever though about that. You have a bag in tow, usually 2 and the door opens in. A rare few airports, the door opens out, making it easier to get in with bags. This is why you do see more small businesses by women selling items for women. Gee, and they are succeeding very well. As you put it so well, OWM (old white male) syndrome still is present and they still laugh at our "weird" ideas. It is slowly breaking, but slow. commercials still have women selling cleaning products, when you see more and more men being the "househusband". It all depends on how we each overcome those crazy "dangers".

Posted by trudy at July 12, 2005 12:01 PM

Paul and Noel - you're cracking me up! This is most definitely not an argument about a can of tuna. It seems whenever there is a "trend" (women in the workforce and as consumers) the whole world attempts to exploit it and we end up swinging the pendulum to the opposite extreme, which leaves us completely out of balance. So, what happens when we design all our products, target all of our marketing and develop all our leadership programs to women? Eventually we find ourselves back on the hampster wheel trying to figure out how to appeal to all those men we alienated in the process. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for taking some of the power back, but let's focus on designing products that are smart regardless of the age, sex, race, color, religion of the consumer. If companies put as much energy into innovation and revenue generation as they do cost cutting and optimization of shelf space, I'm sure we'd all be far better off.

Posted by Darci at July 12, 2005 12:55 PM

Trudy since when was the world created by men?

All of this pandering to women as if we have some sort of 'special needs' condition, please! I'm with the men in this post, my husband cooks at least as often as I do.

The thing I would pause to consider about tuna fish packaging is how much more we would be charged for the convienience of not getting fishy water on our hands. However it is fun to speculate and since many of the tins have those pull tabs why not put two? One small one which could let the air in and allow the water/oil to drain without contaminating our precious hands and I would market it to both men and women simply with regard to its convienience.

Alternatively we could come up with another Home Shopping Network product that would open and drain your cans for you, then separate the juice from the meat - all for $5.99 plus $19.99 shipping.

Posted by Cassandra Helm at July 12, 2005 12:57 PM

Geez, pumping gas is "hard"??? Wow you are fragile.

Regarding the other "unpleasant experiences" you cry about, we already have options to ALL of them:
Giving birth: adoption, or the Pill
Making tunafish: the envelopes mentioned above, or if that's too much trauma there are lots of places that sell tuna salad
Having their periods: There are brands of the Pill that will even do away with that

I'm not even sure how giving birth and having periods, which are indeed uniquely feminine experiences, get lumped in with tunafish and pumping gas, which are pretty gender-neutral. And if you do indeed believe in women's roles and that only women can think about that kind of thing enough to find a solution to them, I would like to ask you who invented the washing machine, vacuum cleaner, floor shampooer, electric stovetop, and any number of the modern conveniences that we take for granted. I don't know whether the answer is a male or female (somehow it never mattered to me, and I am female by the way) but I'll be willing to bet they weren't all women.

Posted by abb at July 12, 2005 1:40 PM

Since I don't cook, and DO have a man who works magic in the kitchen, I have learned to depend on the vacuum sealed packages of tuna when I need a quick lunch and the little man isn't in the kitchen doing whatever he does in there. LOL.

I never thought a can of tuna could generate so many comments about men's rights and kitchen discrimination.

Posted by Aleah at July 12, 2005 2:58 PM

Paul and Noel gave me my smile for the day. :-) So many great comments here, including the fact that if we design and create the right kinds of products and services, they work for everyone.

I just wonder why more of it hasn't been done til now... leave to the women to speak up and say "Enough!" :-)

Have a great day, everyone.

Posted by Michele Miller at July 12, 2005 3:57 PM

I agree with those who would widen the issue to include men. Men wear suits, nice shoes, and get gas on themselves, too.

That said, I do think that there are a lot of products that can be improved. It's important to consider the question "Improved for whom?" though. For someone with limited manual dexterity, ripping open a pouch of tuna might be harder than putting the can into an electric can opener and thumping down on the handle.

A powerful option is to vote with your feet. Refuse to buy the products that don't fill your requirements. Buy products that do. Or send letters to the company stating how the product can be improved.

You can also plan ahead. I buy gas when I'm in my scruffies on the way home. I don't buy gas when I'm in a suit. I buy feminine products that work for me, and I keep them on hand so I don't get any surprises. I mix my tuna salad when my kids are busy with the GameCube.

I tell companies when I think they can improve their products or services. I plan ahead and make life's necessities fit conveniently into my schedule, whenever possible. If all else fails, I'm happy to ask others for help, and lend them a hand in return.

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Posted by Shannah at July 12, 2005 7:31 PM

be a little tough. stop being so paranoid. be smart about your surroundings. i'm a guy and well built, standing at 6'1. i run through about 500 miles a week on my car, so needless to say i'm at Shell quite a bit. i won't go to stations after 9 unless people are with me...just smarter. you all are not victims!! i'm in professional dress every day and speaking with female clients the same as i do males ones.
point=something tells me that companies are doing their best to adhere to both sexes; otherwise, they'd have a serious PR problem. there will always be products that need to be tailored to one gender or the next. it's not about men trying to control the world. it's knowing your market. yes, household dads may be increasing, but if it's only 20%, then why change what's working. similarly, why should Craftsman change their socket wrench because more women happeing to be working on vehicles b/c OCC is popular?
as for the gas pumps, what do you suggest they do until those robots they've been promising come to fruition? all of that heavy crap is required by law for safety reasons or we don't pump no gas.
daaaamn, i gotta go. i just cut my finger on that f*&)ing Starkist can.

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Posted by christien at July 12, 2005 11:03 PM

...mmm nice tuna sandwich. i just went for a post-snack. i nabbed some of those chips ahoys with the little m&m like candies in them. i love them, but damn that packaging. i can't get that plastic tray thingy back into the blue unforgiving wrapper!! i just keep pushing and pulling and shoving. why?! why?! won't you go into the package! ah forget it, i'll just leave it open. of course, they'll go stale, so basically i'm paying for 4 cookies. i love the cookies, but i'm not buying them again until they start making these packages more for the unpatient, super flexible, non-dexterous in mind, young, late night snack eating, male. Nabisco has screwed us! all i need is a blog and a podcast and they're gone.
this freakonomics book is pretty good.

Posted by christien at July 12, 2005 11:26 PM

Hey Michelle, you should read the first post in this thread. I think the men in this forum are able to speak up as vivaciously as the women.

I agree with Christien; there's no substitute for common sense.

viagra online ordering Posted by Noel Guinane at July 13, 2005 3:11 AM

I thought we came to the conclusion earlier this year than no issues remotely involving marketing to women should be open to men's comments. Sure, men wear suits, nice shoes, and get gas on themselves, but underneath those suits and nice shoes are ugly, lopsided bodies and stinky, jam-ridden toes. And they deserve to get gas on themselves. They are, of course, responsible for the world's dependency on gas as well as the repressive cost of crude.

Of course, there are a lot of products that can be improved, but we don't need any man's input to improve them. Not only is it important to consider the question "Improved for whom," but "Improved by whom." For someone with limited cognitive ability (men), ripping open a pouch of tuna might be harder than putting the can in a vice grip and prying it open with a screwdriver.

Now is the time for all women to vote with their feet! Refuse to buy any products designed, produced or marketed by men.

Posted by Troy Worman at July 13, 2005 3:41 AM

So, looking back at Tom's "Design49": only women can design for women, a 28 year old can't design for a 62 year old etc? Think of the micro-retailing opportunities we're opening up! You go to the store:

"Good morning, sir, you're a 40-year old, middle income, high intelligence, SUV-driving (contradiction between the last 2 points?), German of Turkish origin, hetero-sexual, Catholic, soccer playing person. Please go to aisle 2 where you'll find products designed by 40-year old, middle income, high intelligence, SUV-driving, German of Turkish origin, hetero-sexual, Catholic, soccer playing designers."

"But I just want a can of tuna."

"Yes sir, but we've got male / female cans, age differentiated, religion-specific, personality-targeted cans of tuna."

"Why can't I have that can over there?"

"Aisle 3 is for left-handed, bisexual persons of a predominantly male orientation, sir."

"It's a can of tuna, for heaven's sake!"

Posted by Mark JF at July 13, 2005 5:01 AM

Troy: Is this for real? "Now is the time for all women to vote with their feet! Refuse to buy any products designed, produced or marketed by men."

I was hoping that you are being sarcastic. Mark JF's dialouge is a good one. It's freaking ridiculous if micro-retailing goes that far and with that logic it's seems possible. Do you know how many small business owners would fail and the domino effect it would have on the real estate market? Also, with that new USSC ruling on taking over private property for economic growth, their would be no homes with people in the them for people to keep these micro stores afloat. people will have to fly from other countries to shop in the US the way people now fly from small towns to say Chicago, Dallas or New York to shop. my brain hurts.

Posted by christien at July 13, 2005 9:33 AM

A notice to the Music Industry - YOUR PACKAGING SUCKS. SUCKS! SUCKS!!! First, I pay a premium for a CD which I may or may not really enjoy (without the option to return). To top it off, I fight with the wrapper and two or more stickers on the spine. Let's not even got into price. OK - lets. $18.00 for a CD and a headache. Less than $1.00 to cover production costs, $1.00 or so to the artist - and I'M the thief for downloading to listen before I buy??? Puh-leeze.

Posted by Drew at July 13, 2005 11:43 AM

Sorry. I was just having fun.

Posted by Troy Worman at July 13, 2005 4:08 PM

Troy - you don't have to apologise for having fun!

Posted by Mark JF at July 13, 2005 4:32 PM

fun is why i munch on m&m chips ahoy!

Posted by christien at July 13, 2005 6:54 PM

I have been thinking about this very profound and serious management issue Halley

And .....The answer is ... buy fresh Tuna!!! - we Brits are nothing if not logical :-)

Better still - and picking up the Paul H and Noel thread - why doesn't your man go out and fish for the tuna and bring it home for you to freshly cook? :-)

Just joking by the way - I am a 'modern man' and into equality - I make a mean Tuna and cucumber sandwich.

Posted by Trevor Gay at July 14, 2005 6:11 AM

Here's a suggestion: if you really feel it's that dangerous, why not try eating something other than canned tuna? No offense, but surely you can find an alternative for lunch that won't put your life in danger.

Posted by Jim at July 18, 2005 3:02 PM

Are you supposed to squeeze the brine from a can of tuna? I've been drinking it from the can as I scoop the tuna out with my fingers?

Posted by Tom O'Leary at July 19, 2005 6:03 PM

Seriously (for one second), this relates to a larger issue: as the BoomerGeezer population ages, packaging design will become a BIIIIG issue. I'm 60, fit, and generally healthy. But I have some repetitive stress injury to my hands after decades of computer use, and opening a carton of fruit juice that has one of those silly little pull rings can be painful as well as difficult. The last time I bought a package of ink tanks for my Canon printer, I nearly sliced a finger off trying to open the plastic "bubble" with scissors because I couldn't tear it open manually. And as for those operating instructions printed in 8-point type, the manufacturer should be forced to read them through sunglasses in a darkened room ... I belong to the "vote with your feet" school, but sometimes (as with the printer ink) I don't have any choice -- but you can bet your bippy that the next time I look for a printer, one of my criteria will be "ink tank packaging can be opened without personal injury."

Posted by Paula at July 20, 2005 5:39 PM

Paula, of course you are right in stating that there is a huge share to consider when designing packaging for product driven boomer+ markets.

Your two examples are spot on. Businesses would be smart to combine easy access and eco-friendly properties in their designs. Let's demonstrate a consciousness of our society and environment in our packaging! That should be the charge to all designers and decision-makers. Besides, it's hip to be square!

Posted by Tom O'Leary at July 22, 2005 9:00 AM