Comments

It's not so much the heat, it's the stupidity!

You've been very patient and accommodating to date Halley. I suppose you'll have to weight how much you're willing to invest into this relationship.

At times, we have to adjust our speed in life according to the company we're keeping. In the future, if a cancelation causes you to have a free block of time in your busy calendar, use it to slow down and breathe. Step off the merry-go-round and celebrate life; call an old friend, visit that restaurant you've always wanted to try or take in a matinee. Reward yourself for working so hard!

...and then go back and throttle 'em! just kidding

Posted by Tom O'Leary at July 27, 2005 5:29 PM

I have found that some individuals are chronic re-schedulers, and that the more accommodating you are the more they seem to derive power from re-scheduling again and again. I don’t usually give advice, but as you’ve asked, I would tell this person the window has closed and that there is no longer an opportunity to meet. Stand fast and rebuff further pleas to reschedule once again. Give the person a few days to consider their utter selfishness and then wait for the inevitable call or email to try to set something up again. Only agree to another meeting if this person is crucial and important to your business, but stress that this will the last chance for them to deal with you.

Your time is precious, I agree with Tom that you need to stop and smell the flowers from time-to-time, however it should be when you want to smell them, not when someone opens a block in your schedule by canceling a meeting.

Posted by Paul Bryden at July 27, 2005 5:46 PM

You are too accomodating Halley - tell them you are too busy to see them now!! :-)

Posted by Trevor Gay at July 27, 2005 5:53 PM

Hi Halley,

To quote St Augustine who once remarked long ago " I know what time is until someone asks me"

I MOST DEFINITELY agree with the above because "Nothing really belongs to us but time, which even he has who has nothing else"

Now, coming to ur point on dealing with people who DISRESPECT or DONT HAVE VALUE FOR TIME....jus read below to complete (ask ur clients / business partners) the following exercise. If a statement describes ur attitude or behavior, check YES, if not, No. Tell the Truth!

1) I look upon the time of those who work for me as an extension of my own, to do with as I please.
2) I frequently interrupt meetings in their offices, as I have first priority on their time
3) I regard job descriptions – that each position in an organization has its own proper duties, responsibilities and authority – as a bureaucratic nonsense!
4) When telephoning anyone I never check to see if my call is an unwanted interruption at that particular moment.
5) I enjoy the sound of my own voice and I know that I am rather long-winded at meetings.
6) In the last one month I can think of atleast 1 occasion when I have kept someone waiting needlessly without telling them why.
7) I am aware of the quantity of time that my people put into their work but not the quality of time they give.
8) I have never reflected on the fact that other people’s time is as precious to them – or ought to be – as my time is to me.
9) I do not show potential or actual customer that I value their time. Its their money am after!
10) I frequently miss agreed deadlines, I say that I will do things and then don’t do them, and have to be chased by others accordingly.

The following scale will help u to interpret ur present level of personal awareness of other people’s time based on ur current attitude & behaviors:

No answers
8-10 : U r sensitive & thoughtful. Keep it up!
5-7 : U r very good, but in some respects could be better.
2-4 : Get some feedback and advice frm friends & colleagues
0-1 : Beyond redemption! A radical self review of ur attitude is needed!

Trust the above test helps u know whether other ppl value ur time or not and vice-versa!

PS: The above test is taken frm John Adairs' Book on Time Management & Personal Development.

Posted by K.Sriram (from India) at July 27, 2005 8:37 PM

Bottom line: If they're this difficult in just setting up a meeting - Imagine what a nightmare it would be to work with them. Personally, I've a got "three strikes and you're out" rule for both friends and business. I cross them off my invite/meeting/prospect/client lists...Sure, life happens, but this is ridiculous.

Posted by Mary Schmidt at July 27, 2005 9:23 PM

Halley,

As you say, time is not worth wasting because you can’t buy it back. But reading your post it’s not about time…

I’ll let other people tell you how they would deal with this situation and ask you a few questions that might clarify your own response.

1. Imagine that the meeting goes ahead, and they sign (accept or whatever you are attempting to do goes ahead). What will happen? How will it change your life/work? What is important to you about this event? Would you accept a handshake or demand a signed contract?

2. This person is seemingly leading you along. What actions can you take to bring the results of months of work back under your control?

3. If this situation continues, how many more missed meetings and evasive responses will you accept before cancelling the entire job? What do you think will be their response? Which of your ideals that is not being met will cause you to cancel any further work?

And what all these questions boil down to, in one-way or another, is: Is the final result that you may get, worth the effort?

Enjoy,
Michael.

Posted by Michael Vanderdonk at July 27, 2005 10:07 PM

I have to agree with Michael. I think the chances of this person treating you any better later are slim to nil. So, I think you have to weigh whether or not the benefit you are going to receive is worth the annoyance the person will cause you.

I think that Paul is also right about them deriving power from rescheduling. If they tried to reschedule with me after jerking me around like that, I would simply tell them "I'm sorry, I'm busy in negotiations with other clients. Perhaps in a few months." I'm pretty sure that would take the wind out of their sails.

Shannah

Posted by Shannah at July 28, 2005 1:24 AM

I think Michael and Tom have got it summed up between them. If the end game is worth the hassle, you have to persist. If they cancel again, take the free time as an opportunity to go smell the flowers.

Mind you, if you're trying to sell them some consulting I'd specifically point out to them that cancelled meetings attract the consultant's full day rate!

I'd add that you might gently embarrass them into keeping an appointment by (rather than asking how old they are) simply pointing out that you have a busy schedule, the cancelations have cost you quite a lot of lost time and you'd appreciate if they could keep the next date. Maybe they don't have the same time pressures that you do and they just need a little reminder?

Posted by Mark JF at July 28, 2005 1:42 AM

I think you already know this person doesn't value time, doesn't live up to commitments and can't be trusted to do what they've promised when they've promised to do it. Perhaps you know even more. The key thing is to believe what you've learned and to act on it.

We sometimes talk ourselves out of obvious conclusions. Like the doctor said to the patient who says it hurts when he does that, "don't do that."

Posted by Bill Berry at July 28, 2005 2:01 AM

You're right - as you get older this usually happens less.

We have a kind of rule at PDG where I work. People get 3 chances to sort stuff out - whether it's to reply to an e-mail - pick up the phone - pay an invoice - respond to a proposal - whatever...

after that you just have to let them go...

Posted by davidcoe... at July 28, 2005 3:49 AM

Some clients must be fired - fired fast I say! Then again if they want to engage me in a multi million dollar contract, I forgive them and respect their wisdom ... if you don't like my values, give me a bit of time and I'll change them for you ... ah ... ethical management at its best ...

Posted by Sean at July 28, 2005 7:41 AM

Okay I understand the heat makes people cranky - but what does age have to do with anything?

If someone is rude they are rude - it doesn't matter if they're 15, 55 or 75?

If it turns out that this person is VERY old, instead of VERY young will you repost explaining the rude mentality of the old who have so little to do they can reschedule at will?

You didn't explain the context of your meeting but in reference to common rules and manners isn't it generally considered rude to ask someone their age?

I agree our time is valuable but it's just as valuable if it's wasted by someone old or young, man or women, black or white, short or tall, fat or skinny ~ hot and cranky or cool and calm.

Posted by steve at July 28, 2005 8:04 AM

It's simple. You must have a lot to gain by meeting with these people. This is a sign of what the relationship will be like, so they must be worth the rescheduling.

Or ... they are nust not that into you.

Posted by Bruce DeBoer at July 28, 2005 8:44 AM

I might be reading to much into this but it feels like this was an email "conversation"?

If so pick up the phone!

Posted by PaulH at July 28, 2005 9:04 AM

Send them a bill.

It's as simple as that.

Posted by ER at July 28, 2005 11:22 AM

Send them a link to this post.

Posted by Michael Martine at July 28, 2005 11:39 AM

Halley:

I share your view of the value of time. In fact, the older I get the higher value I place on that time since the quantity is diminishing! It is a precious and irreplaceable commodity. What has worked for me is a frank discussion of how I view time and a commitment to value their time as much as I value my own. By establishing the expectations and boundaries on the issue early I find that I seldom run into difficulty. In fact, I actually tend to find people more committed because I respect their time (whether to do consciously or not).

If that doesn't work then I'm on my way without a rear view mirror.

Posted by walter white at July 28, 2005 12:24 PM

I can clearly see from your post that you are someone committed to hard work and value respect.

Still, I also wonder what your intention was by asking the age. To me, that action could potentially suggest some amount of hostility about working with younger peers or at least point to some reservations worth examining. And, in this context, it sounds like you are making an effort to assert your (perceived) superiority, feeling justified in your being "right" about the rescheduling and them being "wrong." Not to mention it is totally passive-aggressive to ask about age, when that really isn't the issue at all.

Certainly, it doesn't create a sense of team or partnership. It creates a sense of heirarchy, and not in a good way.

Being direct but congenial is the way to go. Firmly state that you are frustrated with the constant rescheduling and that it doesn't work for you. Calmly suggest what would work for you (selecting a firm date, postponing for a while, etc) and go from there. They may get the point, they may flake, or a hundred other things, but you will have made your point without being rude or disrespectful. There is no point in burning this bridge, whether or not you end up working together on this project.

It seems like a silly and elementary thing - having someone respect your time seems like business 101 - but this, like the rest of your business, is an opportunity for you to create a win/win and build a relationship.

Speculating on why it's happening (age, carelessness, their view of time, politics) is of little value beyond making them more wrong or you more right. State your frustration and start offering solutions that will work for you. Be in the conversation to learn what's going on for them and pay attention to your insticts. You'll quickly be able to either get a firm meeting or realize they don't have their act together and decide it's not worth the effort.

Posted by Drake at July 28, 2005 1:20 PM

Halley...I liked that you asked their age (maturity). That was your gut recognizing that this relationship is destined to go nowhere. Look at the constant rescheduling as a game and pray that the meeting is never arranged. (If they are this way now, what will they be like later?)

BTW I like the invoicing idea. Charge them for the next meeting, whether or not it occurs.

Posted by Jill Hurst-Wahl at July 28, 2005 2:42 PM

Can't any one answer the Q'????

36

Posted by phill at July 28, 2005 6:11 PM

25 and holding.

Drake - insightful about the ageism of [Halley?] - in Radical Evolution it is mentioned how the teens in the house are often the radically computer and information access literate ones - and the mentors to the older family members for iPod, cell phones, video cameras, laptops, memory sticks, spreadsheets, slide shows - you name it. C'est la vie - use the talent where you find it. Naturally though sometimes its best to fire the immature business clients that waste time, money, resources.

Posted by Sean at July 28, 2005 6:37 PM

I won't jump to conclusions too quickly about what is really going on with this because there are not enough pieces of info in the post and we could be divagating about a topic like this for ages.

Looks like the situation is pointing out a underlying issue of resistence, but don't know from what part. However, it concerns to the team's performance not to one single person (in that case it will be easy to detect) and also age prejudices won't help. Try using questioning skills, findind the lesson.

Posted by Omara at July 28, 2005 9:28 PM

I wish I had advice. I've been dealing with the same from an unpaid intern that my boss foisted on me for the summer (the son of one of his rich friends). My most recent experience was when he called late yesterday afternoon to ask if we could reschedule last nights meeting to 8 AM this morning. The meeting involved the two of us and one of our key volunteers. She was nice enough to reschedule. The time-rich intern slept through the meeting, literally! So far, he has asked to reschedule about 50% of our meetings, and that was after I let him set the original time for the meetings.

Posted by 1chuck at July 28, 2005 9:32 PM

What is it about age that changes our perception of time?

Obviously, the individual with whom you are dealing does not share your perspective that time is valuable commodity not to be wasted, much less, pissed away. I don't think this warrants a verbal beating, but I could be wrong.

Perhaps a motherly angle would prove more productive.

Posted by Troy Worman at July 28, 2005 11:19 PM

HALLEY - HERE'S A QUESTION FOR YOU. viagra order

About 3 weeks ago I got a call from a headhunter about a very interesting job opportunity. We arranged a meeting with his client (the Global HR Director of a major, multi €bn international company) but he cancelled it the evening beforehand. We re-arranged for today and I've just got back: he didn't show up! When I eventually got through to his mobile, he was 250 miles from the agreed location and in another meeting. He wanted to know if I would hang around and meet him if (note the "if") his current meeting and traffic conditions would let him fit it in before flying off on vacation this evening. (I was near the airport he was flying from so didn't need to move on very much.)

Do I proceed with this interesting opportunity with a major company, or politely back off? (I know what I'll do but I'd be interested to hear from the TP blogging community...)

Posted by Mark JF at July 29, 2005 6:26 AM

It's funny, usually I feel exactly the opposite :)

by the way, I am 29!

Posted by Giuseppe Mayer at July 29, 2005 7:19 AM

viagra wholesale uk Advice: I would call this person. I suspect they don't find online conversations to be 'real' and therefore violating normal standards of behavior (cancelling meetings all the time) is acceptable. By speaking with you, it reinforces that you're a real person.

It also escalates the importance of the meeting.

Lastly, however, like many of the others, I would not waste more than a little bit of time on this person. They are probably either poorly organized, lacking in willpower or just plain ignorant.

Posted by jb at July 29, 2005 8:57 AM

Mark, if it was a position that I was interested in, I would show flexibility and suggest meeting in the Airport prior to his flight. If you can, arrange for a meeting area with airport operations, or grab a good table at one of those swanky airport bistros. Unless you have more pressing matters, of course.

Too often, power struggles begin very early in the relationship. Focus your energy on working together to make this meeting happen in a mutually beneficial way, rather than on the inconvenience that it might cause you. Too often, we react spitefully instead of responding successfully.

Posted by Tom O'Leary at July 29, 2005 9:26 AM

I've only made up one aphorism my whole life, but it applies here:

"Time is your only unrenewable resource."

Everything else can be replaced. Including this person you're trying to meet with.

Posted by Kevin Knutson at July 29, 2005 10:36 AM

TIME to take control. If someone does not get it, let them go.

Posted by Michael White at July 29, 2005 11:39 AM

Power struggles are a part of relationships. Sometimes the struggles reflect immaturity, though often the struggles that I see are more based upon the complex dynamics of a specific interaction.

I do wonder, Halley, whether the behaviour of 'they' in this case is standard. It may be that they have reasons and justifications. Or it may be about you and either their attitudes towards you (as has been noted) or some other aspect of your relationship dynamics with them.

Still, tell them how you feel. While asking them their age allows you to indulge in confirming your own biases, scores a few points for your ego and allows you to feel more self-righteous, will it serve your purposes.

What is your outcome?
Why do you want to 'meet' with these people? How else - other than frustrating yourself as you seem to be in the habit of doing - can you achieve that outcome?

My perception of time has changed as I have grown older. I think that it has something to do with living with an awareness of our mortality. Some of us realise the value of time earlier; sometimes we forget it even if we have once realised it.

Of course it depends upon your personal values, purpose and vision for your life. I prefer to accept a 'guidance' that gives me lessons until I learn them. Once I have learned the lesson, that teacher either teaches me something else, or finds someone else to share the lesson with.

I believe that if it serves your purposes, you should see them. But keep your ego out of the issue.

I am 27.

Posted by Daniel Smith at July 29, 2005 12:53 PM

Power struggles are a part of relationships. Sometimes the struggles reflect immaturity, though often the struggles that I see are more based upon the complex dynamics of a specific interaction.

I do wonder, Halley, whether the behaviour of 'they' in this case is standard. It may be that they have reasons and justifications. Or it may be about you and either their attitudes towards you (as has been noted) or some other aspect of your relationship dynamics with them.

Still, tell them how you feel. While asking them their age allows you to indulge in confirming your own biases, scores a few points for your ego and allows you to feel more self-righteous, will it serve your purposes.

What is your outcome?
Why do you want to 'meet' with these people? How else - other than frustrating yourself as you seem to be in the habit of doing - can you achieve that outcome?

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My perception of time has changed as I have grown older. I think that it has something to do with living with an awareness of our mortality. Some of us realise the value of time earlier; sometimes we forget it even if we have once realised it.

Of course it depends upon your personal values, purpose and vision for your life. I prefer to accept a 'guidance' that gives me lessons until I learn them. Once I have learned the lesson, that teacher either teaches me something else, or finds someone else to share the lesson with.

I believe that if it serves your purposes, you should see them. But keep your ego out of the issue.

I am 27.

Posted by Daniel Smith at July 29, 2005 12:54 PM

I don't think this has anything to do with "age". Sure we learn as we grow "older" but personally this isn't an age-thing. I for one, have always valued the other person's time because eventually it all comes around. Being on-time is professional - whether one is 23 or 50.

The value of time is learnt only once we don't have it - like you value time because you don't have time to waste, maybe the other person just has too much time or is throwing their weight around.

As for the person not disclosing their age, majority people get biased if it's a younger person - I know.

Posted by Naina Redhu at July 29, 2005 1:16 PM

free trial viagra canada Let's look at it from a different angle. It may not be a disregard for time after all. Some people have a difficult time rejecting others (or in any way being straightforward). Rather than just telling you that he doesn't want to continue this "relationship," he may be putting you off in hopes you'll just go away. By telling him you are no longer interested in this rabbit chase, you may be doing both of you a favor by setting him free. Go spend your time in more productive ways.

Posted by Russ at July 29, 2005 1:22 PM

Halley

It is past the time to cut him off. If he is acting this way prior to a business relationship with you, how is he going to be once you are locked into a business arrangement. It does not matter how much his business is worth to you financially. It will cost you much more in the end. It already has cost you too much, or you would not have posted here.

Good Luck,
David

Posted by David Goularte at July 30, 2005 10:10 PM

Let's start with the basics- they are not vendors (or potential vendors) or this would not be happening. They are either potential partners or clients. Whatever you are "selling" is not a high priority or they would have been there day one. Therefore you are being "strung along" because they are mildly interested but busy with other projects or too wishy washy or polite to say no thanks. If it's the latter politely let it go. They may change their mind, find the time, or have value in another project. What exactly do you gain by brushing them off? If the project is more important to you than to them they are doing you a favor by even continuing to try to schedule a get together. Be patient! Sometimes being in new territory is a high priority for you, but not your expected clients. Maybe look at what you are offering and see how compelling it really is. Can you make it more attractive? Exciting? Or do it in smaller pieces through email? Some of my favorite clients/partners took a long time to hook. But when the right bait was presented patiently, they finally bit. Look less at the meeting and more at what you are offering. At 47 I don't scare away the fish because they don't bite!

Posted by Bruce McCurtain at July 31, 2005 4:13 AM

Halley, give us an update will you? I'm curious to know what path you have chosen and what the result was.

Thanks!

Posted by Tom O'Leary at July 31, 2005 7:45 PM

Halley, take Tom's advice from the blog post just before this- Breathe! Then go shoe shopping- the shop will be air conditioned and offer a breather of its own- away from the keyboard. Plus, if we really do think on our feet, you will have a new perspective and can give this cad (or cad-ette) the boot or a solid spike-induced shoe off.

Posted by Pam Brill at August 1, 2005 8:07 PM

What am I thinking? You WROTE the post on the power of breathing. So take your own advice and breathe deep. Given that breathing allows us to see things in a new light (Bruce McEwen's research proves what sports science suggested - under stress, we really do experience a narrowing of vision, hearing and of the mind...), a few breaths should open your ears and eyes to choosing a clear path on how to deal with this person of undetermined years.

Posted by Pam Brill at August 1, 2005 8:13 PM

I second Tom O'Leary suggestion.

H, will you repost the experience on your "chosen path" ?? would luv to linkblog these comments and your final result /decesion !! thks

Posted by /pd at August 2, 2005 8:12 PM