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MBWA After All These Years

I was cleaning out some of my Mom's stuff, and came across a picture of me wearing a red (what else?) hat with, in big/bold letters ... MBWA. It did more than "bring back memories."

In 1980, while doing some generic "excellence" research that later became In Search of Excellence, Bob Waterman and I interviewed then HP president John Young. (HP was a $1B company at the time, with marginal interest in computers). John explained that HP's hallmark "MBWA" was "more important than ever as we experience explosive growth." Well, Bob & I had no idea what "MBWA" was—though we'd both had a belly-full of strained acronyms.

MBWA ... Managing By Wandering Around ... quickly became our favorite "excellence" idea! Technically, it meant staying in direct touch (damn the bureaucracy!) with the folks who do the work. Metaphorically, it stood for all/much of what was wrong with American management—McKinsey & Harvard Business School-style—as we confronted the Japanese challenge in areas such as product quality. That is, "big business" had become an abstraction. It was a "by the numbers" affair, where front-line "personnel" were pretty much interchangeable parts in a well-oiled "machine" and where "strategy" was considered far more important than primitive ideas such as quality and service and turned-on folks. Of course by then the bearings had lost most of their oil and seized up!

Now, it's 25 years later ... and, frankly, not as much has changed as we had hoped. To this day! A lot of the problem in New Orleans was the absence of MBWA. The fool (perhaps too kind a description) who heads FEMA gave new meaning to "out of touch." But that's only part of my rant here. More generally I hope to quash terms swiped from the military such as "on the ground" (not all bad—though it gives me the impression of leaders playing at soldier) and resurrect Managing By Wandering Around.

Leaders, from FEMA and the White House to GM (!) and Wal*Mart will only thrive, even in the age of the Internet and "virtual organizations," if they somehow stay in touch. (In fact, one of Wal*Mart's secrets of continued excellent performance—with 1.5 million people on the payroll—is an uncanny ability to stay in touch with the front line.)

Bottom line: I think I'll dust off my quarter-century old MBWA hat—and maybe I'll send it to the President!

Tom Peters posted this on 09/06/05.

Comments

But Trevor, if you listen to your staff, they might have a different idea or opinion than you do. We simply can not have that sort of thing. After all, we must be the smartest person in the room because we are THE MANAGER.

Typically I run into managers (and company presidents, supervisors, official flunkies, and executives) who just keep repeating the same thing to me over and over, believing that since I disagreed with them, I must not have understood the concept. I have to repeatedly spell it out for these types that "yes, I understand your position, I just don't agree with it." Reactions range from confused stumbling away to an outright and angry version of "how dare you."

Posted by Mike at September 6, 2005 9:11 AM

Tom Peters,

What I have heard is that the state of Louisiana failed to contact the federal government, therefore, President Bush placed a phone call to the Governor of Louisiana asking permission to deploy federal assistance to Louisiana.

The governor refused at first to give the federal government permission saying that she needed 24 hours to think about it. She has since stated that because she was reluctant to turn law enforcement powers over to the federal government and because she felt that it was her responsibility to uphold Louisiana right to police itself that she delayed giving this permission.

The fact is that the federal government is not allowed to do some things without a request from the state.

Bush has also been handicapped by certain aspects of the bureaucracy, FEMA being one of the ones as you mentioned.

In spite of the prestige of his office, the President has more limitations than the CEOs of many corporations.

And as for wandering around, he has been shuttling back and forth both to the scene of the devastation and to the capital trying to get things moving more efficiently.

Posted by J. H. Shewmaker at September 6, 2005 9:27 AM

I think MBWA is one of the coolest management ideas of all times. Thank you for remembering it from time to time.

Posted by Felix Gerena at September 6, 2005 9:37 AM

Brilliant Mike - I worked for 35 years for the same people! They kept telling me ... 'you don't understand Trevor'

Felix - I agree about MBWA being a cool concept .... but personally I prefer MBSA - management by 'storying' around where managers go around listening to stories of their staff and in the case of healthcare listening to the stories of patients

Posted by Trevor at September 6, 2005 9:48 AM

I'm a long time and unrepentant MBWA fan (see my comment on the Focus Redux item about a month ago). But here's my twist on it and I call it MBWAx2. It's good old fashioned management by wandering around and it's also management by wondering aloud. In other words: go down to the coalface but while you're there stop and have a cup of tea with the folks, talk to them and do some "management by wondering aloud": give them some ideas and thoughts and comments. Get their ideas and thoughts and comments. Encourage dialogue. Then go away and implement some of this stuff. Preferably with the people who suggested it. And always giving them the credit for it.

Posted by Mark JF at September 6, 2005 10:37 AM

Mike, please stop adding facts to the discussion. We would prefer to bash the president based on conjecture.

Posted by Value at September 6, 2005 11:08 AM

Wow, this is post #8 and no one has bashed TP for writing something good about Wal-Mart.

I don't know much behind-the-scenes about Wal-Mart any more than most other shoppers. But I did read somewhere that store management has the freedom to shop around their area so that they can price their merchandise lower than the rest. That could mean purchasing a widget for $9.97 instead of $9.98, but hey, it's still the lowest price! And if they do that, they won't get flak from Bentonville AR.

More MBWA: I have an autobio by Jack Eckerd, now probably out of print, and he wrote that his store visits were a very important, and the most rewarding, part of his job.
Funny story: after he visited one Eckerd Drug in a metro area, he went to another in the same area. At that store, someone said over the intercom, "All right, everyone, the old man's on his way over, be good!" - just as "old man" Eckerd walked in.
Great story: Eckerd asked a store manager to move the aisles one certain way, to make it easier for the customers to shop. When he visited later, they still weren't moved. So he and the pharmacist moved them.

One last thought, at least for now: Why is it that the more promotions a turkey gets, the better the turkey feels he/she is than the other turkeys? And therefore has no need to do MBWA? I respect a boss far more if he's willing to spend time in the trenches with the rest of us turkeys, knowing that his/her decisions affect us and making sure we're affected positively.

Unless, of course, you work in Trevor's department, therefore you just don't understand . . .

Posted by Ron at September 6, 2005 12:50 PM

I love the idea of Management By Walking Around. Shame in a way that it was taken as a revelation since I really don't know any other way of running a business. Nothing I can think of in business is more boring than sitting behind a desk dealing with masses of reports (unless it's having to sit through endless Powerpoint presentations).

Tying the subject of MBWA to Wall Street, our engine of commerce, here's something Fred Schwed Jr. said:

"... your true speculator starts near the corner of Wall and Broad and doesn't wander farther away than the next two tickers. He knows that in some savage unvisited spot like Jersey City a corporation is actually in business, but he doesn't really think that important. What fascinates him is that against this vague concept of a living business certain pieces of engraved paper can be issued, and that with these pieces of paper thrilling games can be played.

He does not easily conceive the business in terms of workers, management, products, processes, markets, and patents. Much more simply he thinks of the Norfolk and Western Railroad as NFK, and the United States Steel Corporation as X. What is most clearly in his mind is that if he wants to make a play a fellow can always find a close market in X but not in NFK."

You might not think a connection can be drawn between Wall Street speculators and corporate managers, but I have seen the same tendency in both to view a business as an abstract collection of assets and liabilities that can be moved around like pieces on a chess board. The speculator might have an excuse - his interest is making a quick kill, but the corporate manager has been hired to manage the business.

I think the reason MBWA hasn't caught on as much as it should is because it's viewed as too much work to get off your backside and learn about what's really going on in the business. There's a certain appeal to playing mental gymnastics with your pals. I call it Theoretical Management. It's management by theory, not practice. You see it everywhere - managers telling us what could be and should be, but unfortunately isn't.

Posted by Noel Guinane at September 6, 2005 1:14 PM

Totally agree and suggest that in today's era MBWA means walking around on the ground and among the masses, as well as letting your fingers and ears walk around various media and the info they are sharing.

Posted by Jeffrey at September 6, 2005 1:48 PM

MBWA is good. But if you add Listening at the end, it's even more effective. (We named this MBWAL, Management By Walking Around and Listening, in Behind Closed Doors.)

Posted by Johanna Rothman at September 6, 2005 2:20 PM

I recently finished reading a new biography of Henry Ford--"The People's Tycoon: Henry Ford & The American Century," by Stephen Watts. It struck me during this book that Ford was the ultimate MBWA practitioner. He included his design departments, sub-manufacturing areas, engineering rooms, assembly lines, and even customers. Ford was famous for wandering around in overalls talking to the "old farmers." Despite the disconnect he had with his customers in the mid-1920s and workers in the 1930s, I think he just about invented MBWA way back when...

Posted by Mike at September 6, 2005 2:26 PM

Mike, I think Henry Ford was a great businessman too, but here's another view of him I've been reading:

"If you move to the top of the ladder, you have to be careful or pride will take over and you'll get a little power mad. Henry Ford was like an Asian despot. He was a law unto himself. The story goes that one of his senior executives displeased him and he had some of his security guys haul him off to a private room in a hospital and feed him a huge dose of castor oil, with predictable results."

Posted by Noel Guinane at September 6, 2005 3:40 PM

Noel, any objection if we treat the Fred Schwed quote as a separate Post, and mention it's courtesy you?

Posted by tom peters at September 6, 2005 4:24 PM

Tom, please do. Anything written here is yours to do with as you like.

Posted by Noel Guinane at September 6, 2005 4:33 PM

Some MBWA hats would make the perfect corporate gift from TP this Christmas.

Posted by Omara at September 6, 2005 4:45 PM

Tom,

Very good post. I totally agree with u. MBWA is the coolest concept or management philosophy known to mankind.....its so simple to understand but difficult to implement (ofcourse not in all organizations)...maybe bcos a few organizations still have CHINA WALLS built into their organization chart....i flew frm India to Hong Kong last week to take up my new assignment and am surprized to notice separate wash rooms (toilets) for Executives (Sr.Managers et al) in certain offices here...well, that reinforced my belief in using the Non-Exec loo....by the way, r senior managers really different from workers when they pee???? This despotic culture is what irritates me & i believe is the root cause for lack of MBWA!

I also believe that it would not be fair to blame the B-schools for not imparting this culture in organizations.....what culd the B-schools do if the organization is "allergic to change"??

I truly would like to be a part of a MBWA revolution or rather be a change-driver in disseminating the spirit of MBWA and making it happen in organizations rather than merely providing lip service in lectures & corporate conferences.

Posted by K.Sriram at September 7, 2005 1:27 AM

Noel--be careful believing everything you read about Mr. Ford. He was indeed very autocratic at times, hated to share power, kept the reins in his hands after he should have let go, set executives and managers against each other, and was sometimes blind to his customers desires. He was also a populist visionary who almost single-handedly created modern western culture--a society of abundance rather than scarcity, consumer culture, interstate highways, and gas stations (although not the Big Gulp). He was, like you and me, a complete and complicated person full of contradictions.

Revisionist historians like to paint Ford as the crazed, anti-Semitic despot. That's an unfair picture and many folk tales like the one you mention have developed from this.

Posted by Mike at September 7, 2005 6:20 AM

cheapest online viagra Mike, sorry, didn't mean to touch you in the icon there ; )

I happen to agree with what you say about Mr. Ford. I thought the story was a funny one whether or not it's true because of the suggestion that the executive concerned was considered by Mr. Ford to be full of crap. Who among us hasn't known the occasional senior exec with this particular disorder?

Posted by Noel Guinane at September 7, 2005 7:22 AM

Noel--I have no icons. I am a historian among other things, and I only want to have the record as accurate as possible. I think that story is probably apocryphal. Here's another example of MBWA--Major General Fred Franks. General Franks was the leader of the US 7th Corps during the first Persian Gulf War back in '91. His normal leadership routine consisted of personally visiting as many of his subordinate commanders as he could every day. He never sent for any of his subordinates, but instead HE always visited THEM. He personally toured most of the battlefield occupied by his corp during the 100 hours of combat, usually while the guns were still firing. He was constantly hopping from one unit to another in a small helicopter. In his book "Into The Storm," General Franks was rather critical of General Swarzkopf for his technique of directing operations from several hundred miles away and about twelve hours behind the situation and then criticizing his own generals. (General Franks had about half of one leg amputated after being wounded by a landmine during the Vietnam war. His book was co-authored by writer Tom Clancy.)

Posted by Mike at September 7, 2005 11:26 AM

Excellent reminder, Tom!

In our business (hospitality) it's the backbone of success.

Do it well, and you're guests are telling your story to everyone they see. And, you're employees stay by your sode through thick and thin. Don't do it well, or at all, and you know the rest of the story. can you say GM?

Thanks for bringing this back to the forefront.

Michael

P.S. I've written more about it at www.michaelchaffin.com

Posted by Michael Chaffin at September 7, 2005 11:27 AM

Tom,

buy viagra generic online Great idea, but doesn't the President wander about already, "just hangin loose!" Wandering without objectives. A frightening thought.

Bob viagra with prescription online

Posted by Bob Hail at September 7, 2005 12:26 PM

Mike, I really do respect and admire Henry Ford so much so that all I've ever bought and driven are Fords, but even I can admit he was a bit eccentric at times.

However, in line with the thread, here's a more appropriate Henry Ford story: buy viagra mastercard

"Henry Ford discovered a good way of saving time. Rather than summoning one of his managers to see him when he had a problem to discuss, Ford himself would make the visit to that executive's office. Ford said that he developed this method when he discovcered how much easier it was for him to "leave the other fellow's office than I can get him to leave mine.""

Posted by Noel Guinane at September 7, 2005 12:37 PM

That's right, Noel and a good idea it is, too. That's all part of MBWA--manage your own time as well as everything else you have to.

Posted by Mike at September 7, 2005 12:54 PM

Excellent idea, Tom, but I suggest sending directions. Also, please spell out MBWA.

Posted by Troy at September 8, 2005 8:10 PM

In my experience, the one key to having MBWA work well is that the manager must check their ego at the door. I worked as a manager and executive for a couple of small startups back in the bubble days and always made it a point of going to see my team members as well as my colleagues and their teams. I always found it was much more effective to understand the issues of the day, and address them directly. This way people did not feel they were being "summoned" to my office.

The thing that amazed me most, however, was that almost none of my peers and certainly none of the other executives were ever seen outside of their offices or "the executive suite." Somehow or another it seemed that giving these people titles and position also gave them license to manage on high.

One of these companies had a grand total of 150 employees for gods sake. We're not talking a huge corporation here and they wondered why it all fell apart. In the end it seemed that since almost no one was willing to go and see what was happening in the trenches, or even talk to their peers about what they were up to. They were unwilling to check their egos and go out and talk with anyone outside of their sanctum for fear of appearing weak or somehow having lower status.

MBWA has always served me well, I just wish more executives understood that just because you have a bigger office than others doesn't mean that the people who pass through your door are going to tell you what's really going on.

Posted by Andrew Hayden at September 8, 2005 9:58 PM