Comments

"... PARENTS, students and teachers and administrators—and is not the typical increase ..."

Tom - typical Democrat union controlled school admin trying to take all the credit - I hear that!

Plus the negative "not" should be best presented as " ... PLAN to make this a typical increase ..."

Get well soon power walk out of it - avoid pesky birds ...

Posted by Sean at April 4, 2006 9:16 AM

No, I agree with you. Not giving credit to the students is a significant omission and slights the hard work that they did. The administration and teachers provide the guidance, but the students are the ones who did the majority of the work to improve thier scores.

Posted by Detlef Grohs at April 4, 2006 9:17 AM

You are exactly right. Last week, I heard of a principal in our area who spoke of the hard work of the "administrators" as the reason for the high scores. Then he named himself, and a few other staff. He left out not only the students, but the teachers as well.

Posted by Jim at April 4, 2006 9:26 AM

Nitpicking is good..

My girlfriend is fast turning into one.. or perhaps she already was, but I glossed over it. She is incredibly into the wording, presentation etc of every document she sees or writes. This can get a little annoying when she starts tearing apart my documents and pointing out tiny things..

But hey.. Details matter, and it's better that they are all checked out..

On the note of the school posting incredible results, I have a similar problem. A couple kids I know don't study, and their parents push them to study. How do I convince them to work harder? They're all Dutch!!! They think things will just turn out OK.. and aren't scared!

Posted by Arun Sadhashivan at April 4, 2006 9:34 AM

A very good catch Tom. I have to agree. Sad that he left out the actual test takers. It makes me wonder what new system they enacted to obtain these gains: new teachers? new methods of teaching? new methods of test prep? new students?

Now I'm curious.

Posted by Casey Peters at April 4, 2006 9:41 AM

That's not nitpicking at all!

It was my first thought too. The "stroking of the teachers egos" went a little too far. Who really had the increase? Who really benefitted from the increase? Who does it matter the most to?

The students!

Why leave them out of the equation?

Posted by Kevin Behringer at April 4, 2006 9:41 AM

Kevin, I back up your cheerleading for the students but somehow, the students got smarter. Did they all sit down together and study on their own? Highly doubtful. Thus, I'm highly curious on what the school or school system put in place to seek new results which obviously happened.

Posted by Casey Peters at April 4, 2006 9:57 AM

Good catch, but I think it brings up an even bigger issue with the education system today. As it is structured, in the test focused world today the only people rewarded (or punished for that matter) are the teachers and administrators. With all of the emphasis on test scores in a few basic subjects, they are spending inordinate amounts of time teaching to the test and taking the natural curiosity, intellect and wonder of children out of the equation. As a result the only people who have any stake in the game are the administrators and teachers.

If only we could find a lot more people like your friend Dennis Littky who truly understand what it takes to "educate" students.

Posted by Andrew Hayden at April 4, 2006 10:00 AM

A subtle difference in rhetoric but an important one in recognition. It seems like students in that case are just the "product" and not the creators. How stupid can adult rhetoric be sometimes!

Posted by Felix Gerena at April 4, 2006 10:08 AM

A few years ago I changed the standard formulation of the place I worked at the time from faculty and students to students and faculty. My boss asked why I had done that and I said that student learning was what our place was all about, so they should be first. He agreed and it became our new forumlation.

And this is probably a triumph of teaching to the test. I wonder if those poor kids learned anything else all year long.

Posted by Cathy at April 4, 2006 10:11 AM

Great point from Andrew.

I'd add this: can we be nittpicky about the, "significant jump" phrase? Was it because there was a small number of exceptionally gifted students who have bumped up the standard? And having bigged up the teachers and administrators, how does the Principal a) really explain it - is it all due just to hard work?; and b) propose to maintain if not this rate of improvement then at least this new level of performance?

Well done, but let's see what happens next year. If you can't explain it or replicate it then it's just a blip.

Posted by Mark J Foscoe at April 4, 2006 10:12 AM

My first reaction in reading the quote from
your local paper was that it MUST BE an omission on the part of the reporter! IF NOT, well, then we have some proof as to the decline of our present system.

Posted by Susan at April 4, 2006 10:58 AM

Students? What have students to do with the test scores at schools? That's like saying that clients have something to do with the services that professional service firms render to them. Isn't the glory all the consultant's / lawyer's / accountant's etc?

Seriously though, Tom... Good catch. Once you pointed out the omission, the original looks downright silly!

Posted by Rob Millard at April 4, 2006 11:19 AM

RE: TOM'S FLU....as he is not yet officially a geezer, he is not 'mandated by the guidances to get a flu shot...but Tom, really now, with your schedules and travels...did you get one???

Posted by Scott Segal at April 4, 2006 12:27 PM

That's not a nitpick at all! I agree with the comments preceding mine. The entire quote is both telling and disturbing.

Home schooling never looked so appealing as it does today...

Posted by Carlos N Velez at April 4, 2006 1:14 PM

Carlos - agree on home school [or Jesuit or private school] - now we need to offset property taxes for poor performing public schools. USA public school education solely = big challenge to then succeed at the University level.

Posted by Sean at April 4, 2006 1:45 PM

Forget tooting your own horn, give that guy an entire band! Perhaps it was an oversight, but still....if I were a parent of a child at that school I would be a little offended. After all, its the children who are our future, not the faculty, and it is teacher's JOB to teach-I mean, the title is TEACHER! Dont get me wrong, teachers are probably the most underpaid and underappreciated positions in the country-but lets not forget about the students. Without students we wouldnt have teachers, and without teachers we would all be screwed. So maybe we should look at this as an equal partnership-and give credit to everyone!

Feel better Tom!

Posted by Rachel at April 4, 2006 3:16 PM

Quiz: What's wrong with that quote?

"The significant jump is due to bowing to the pressures to 'teach to the test' in order to raise test scores."
Rather than have youngsters engaged in an open-ended, performance based curriculum which promotes THINKING, we turn our youngsters into parrots who memorize inane facts. Scores go up, and adults have a false sense of security that their kids are 'above average'. Lake Wobegon lives!!!! How sad that in this day and age we still set the hurdle height at 'average'.

Posted by Laura Scott at April 4, 2006 3:55 PM

I thoroughly agree with all the T3/Teach To Test criticisms. I am very noisy about it in public. Not only is it stupid "period," but Particularly Stupid in the context of tomorrow's flavor of competition. (See our pal Dan Pink's Whole New Mind, and his Cool Friend interview.)

All that aside, I am still annoyed as hell, regardless of the context, at the "oversight."

(Great comments!)

Posted by tom peters at April 4, 2006 5:17 PM

would have have blamed the students if the scores were not improving?
-Not publicly -
the reason he did not mention students for the improvement is because it is not politicly correct to blame them for bad results -
that's why the students part in the improvement slipped his mind -

Posted by pete at April 4, 2006 5:24 PM

I just finished a wonderful book THE BIG PICTURE, by Dennis Littky, one of Tom's Cool Friends. He makes a convincing argument that there is too much emphasis on standardized tests anyway, simply because test scores provide a neat numerical measurement. What matters most to kids can not be measured on a standardized test. It isn't that tests are unnecessary, or that they should be downplayed, but I would hope that administrators and teachers would always ADD to the news about test scores SOMETHING about their students' progress that can not be easily measured (e.g. initiative, creativity, trust). If Mr. Littky is reading this discussion, I hope he would weigh in! /Garry

Posted by Garry Booker at April 4, 2006 6:06 PM

good spot sir - definitely not nit-picking
as arun said, details matter

2 thoughts.
1. would this guy have mentioned if scores had gone down significantly?
2. did the test get significantly easier?

Maybe I’m just a cynic!

Posted by mikey at April 4, 2006 6:23 PM

Key Biscayne? Miami?

Check out the beach "Crandon Park". I used to work there a lot .... nice place to sit under palms and relax... and get rid of a cold.

Best,
B.

Posted by Boris at April 4, 2006 9:40 PM

Okay, I'm feeling disagreeable tonight, although you were sorely missed Tom. Please get well.

My comment: Would your statement for the reverse be true? Would the students hold any blame? Try this on for size.

"The significant DECREASE is due to the LAZINESS and AMBIVALENCE of OUR STUDENTS our teachers and administrators—and is not the typical DECREASE one would expect in TODAY'S ACADEMIC ENVIRONMENT."

While the administrator gets negative points for inspiration, I'll give him a couple for realism.

I just had a talk with one of my friends who is struggling to work with a CYA-focused district and principal to deal with a creative-minded "special" student. My suggestions: try to get everyone empathizing with each other, while keeping the kid as the focus.

We're ALL in this together. Which I guess is exactly your point. And mine as well.

Posted by Paul Davidson at April 5, 2006 12:39 AM

Thank you! The students at the university I study with are developing a "blame the administrators and teachers" attitude when they don't do as well as expected - I believe this is a result of the teachers and administrators taking the credit when marks are good.

Students are part of the team!

Posted by Dave Duarte at April 5, 2006 3:49 AM

How about "The results are due to the efforts of all stakeholders..."

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Now look at all your re quotes and think, its all of the people, the same in business, the same in general life. Its not one, its all.

(But thanks for the great lead in...)

Posted by Steve Gray at April 5, 2006 4:06 AM

Not nitpicking at all. After all, it wasn't the teachers or adminsitrators who took the test.

Posted by Jim Tighe at April 5, 2006 4:42 AM

Leaving the students out of the praise is utterly ridiculous (and indicative of the "widget producing" culture that has overtaken school assessment). Would you praise the "toaster" (or whatever you produce) for higher toaster production? No, you'd praise the manufacturing line and probably the executives!!!! Our kids are toasters to these people!

On a separate point, teaching to these tests is a crime. I have three kids from 12-15 and while I adore many of their teachers, the pressure to teach to the test is undeniable and to the detriment of their individualized development (AND all forms of knowledge and critical thinking NOT on the test).

Posted by Ann Michael at April 5, 2006 6:17 AM

Keep on picking 'nits' Tom.

Partnerships make things happen in education. My academic supervisor, Prof George Giarchi who is now 76 and still working, has a huge red 'L' Plate on his office wall in Plymouth University because he says

“I learn more from my students than they learn from me.’”

Wonderful … typical George and Amen.

What you are describing is NOT an oversight in my opinion - it is statement that indicates a lot to me. Culturally the institution is JUST NOT putting kids first if they pretend that is an OVERSIGHT!!!

I don’t doubt the staff and administrators were a key part of the partnership but the STUDENTS must always take most credit.

Posted by Trevor at April 5, 2006 6:37 AM

I know the article Tom is referencing, and considering the newspaper in which it was printed, I would give the Pricipal the benefit of the doubt.

Strong potential there for a misquote.

Posted by Manchester Resident at April 5, 2006 7:58 AM

Unfortunately, this absolutely displays the attitude that drives me nuts in our schools today. The teachers and administrators are the center of their universe. Too often, our kids just happen to be there. buy brand viagra without prescription

Big generalization of course (thank God, I've had great experiences at my kid's grammar school) but I do think this is indicative of a systemic problem.

Fell better Tom (echinacea, vitamin C and garlic)

Posted by namnum at April 5, 2006 8:27 AM

PARENTS I suggest. Black and brown USA failure - too often due to 1 parent families and disrespect for POWER of education - same in UK / France with Muslims blaming all for their incompetence.

Posted by Sean at April 5, 2006 8:31 AM

Mmmmm ..interesting Sean and as usual you are straight to the point :-)

I heard a talk by one of my heroes Tony Benn recently that really opened my eyes somewhat. He said he is aware of many Non-British born parents in the UK who want to withdraw their children from UK schools because of the 'low moral standards' in the schools. I am not necessarily agreeing with that either but I am a pragmatist and there are ALWAYS at least two sides to the discussion.

Posted by Trevor at April 5, 2006 10:48 AM

Meanwhile Trevor the kids with "high" moral standards are eager to homocide their way to Heaven at the expense of native Brits/EUers :>}.

Posted by Sean at April 5, 2006 11:18 AM

Location, school, and principal not named--best I could do. canada doctor viagra

Posted by tom peters at April 5, 2006 12:05 PM

The big difference between Public Education and all other businesses is that, assuming students are customers, you can't fire them!
How many people are shopping in Whole Foods
who are compelled to be there by law!
Suppose they were? And suppose they had to stay there all day long!
Would Whole Foods be successful?
Would any endevor be successful that has 'customers' who were compelled by law to
participate?

Posted by joe at April 5, 2006 4:25 PM

Joe. Wrong. Big time. Abbey Bishop, who manages my company in Vermont, is the wife of a former career U.S. Army Ranger. Guess what, military leaders can't fire their soldiers. That does not limit the enormity of their accomplishments in the face of the most extraordinary context "24/7."

Conclusion... get ready. There are good leaders. There are bad leaders.

Posted by tom peters at April 5, 2006 10:19 PM

Fine post, Tom. Definitely a goat-gettr.

If I were feeling generous, I'd say that this was a careless omission on the part of the principal. Ahem. So often our words betray our feelings....

Also no mention of parents/grandparents/significant-geezers in the kids' lives either that might have made a little bit of difference in this case.

Posted by Kevin Summers at April 6, 2006 12:17 AM

Praising accomplishment is bound to upset some when names/groups of contributors are mentioned. The best speeches at the Oscars are those that don't include a list of individual contributors to the project. There will always be someone left out - someone who will be hurt by the omission because their contribution wasn't recognized alongside others'. I've been there myself, on both sides - regretting omission and dejected by oversight.

The worst is when the winner fails to thank her husband/his wife. Ouch!

Posted by Tom O'Leary at April 6, 2006 9:29 AM

The Army and Public Ed -
not even close as a comparison - unless the Army has no consequences for misbehaving
soldiers -
And the Army Rangers and Public Ed?
Are you saying anyone can become(or is compelled) to become a Ranger? Everyone in my Algebra I class is compelled to be in it -
- and each day the repeaters (about 20-25% of the class repeat algebra I 2-3 times) learn that they aren't very good at algebra - sometimes failing is good information - sometimes it means try something else - that doesn't seem to be an option in Public Ed -
There are no analogs for public ed other than maybe working in a soviet era refrigerator factory in in the old USSR.
Its really not the people in the system, its the system.

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Posted by joe at April 6, 2006 2:03 PM

Hi Sean - I am not necessarily agreeing with the view but PERCEPTION is interesting don't you think? :-)

Posted by Trevor at April 7, 2006 2:00 AM

Perception rules at times Trevor - the USA Senate/House now are finally addressing the Mexican-latin invasion challenge [Gov Richardson phrase] - they crave new votes above all so they are eager to give away tax payer funds and property [illegal votes].

Posted by Sean at April 7, 2006 9:21 AM

selfrighteousRus... the fact is, you're no better than the teachers mentioned, just opposite and more self righteous...

Posted by onehandclapping at April 10, 2006 11:55 AM