Comments

Thank you, Tom, for shining some much-needed common sense onto the whole test-score thing. Excellence is not merely the product of a hyper-developed ability to take multiple-choice tests. It's about passion, creativity, curiosity, drive, etc... stuff that tests like the SAT basically ignores.

Anyone who's wondering how well SAT's predict future performance should check out Martin Seligman's amazing book Learned Optimism. He writes:

"Who gets better grades than the SATs predict? The optimists. And the pessimists get worse grades than their SATs predict." (p153)

Posted by Dan Ward at August 10, 2006 12:35 PM

In the States we get frustrated and look to other cultures for answers. And most of what we find is rigid and non-creative.

We incorrectly seek direction from cultures which encourage conformity and where parents demand success within the system.

We should not forget that managing and tabulating test scores is easy - encouraging kids is hard.

The U.S. must remain a nation of crazy, reckless individuals rather than a mediocre mob searching for security and order.

Posted by Jack at August 10, 2006 12:36 PM

Hmmm...there's a big difference between rote regurgitation of data and learning to truly think, heh?

This also illustrates how statistics can be spun and misunderstood (test score comparisons in this case) - something we should remember when looking at everything from political polls to technorati rankings.

Posted by Mary Schmidt at August 10, 2006 3:16 PM

The only thing passing tests ever prove is that we are good at taking tests. It is absolutely pathetic that young lives are lost simply through trying to meet some artificial, unreal and totally meaningless standard. Tragic. It annoys me no end and I speak as one who got the ticks in the right boxes most of my school career. And yet some of the greatest influences on my life have been those who couldn’t even identify the boxes.

Posted by Trevor Gay at August 10, 2006 5:51 PM

A month ago I was at an Education Conference in Hong Kong. The city is booming with highly educated, highly motivated young entrepreneurs. I admired educational software being distributed by a British company. They told me it was developed by a programmer from Beijing. Tom's PPT slide is correct "Do your homework, someone wants your job ..."

Posted by Mike L at August 10, 2006 7:58 PM

You must also realize that most of the countries in Asia are still developing. Lots of problems with government, Infrastructure , etc.

These nations have had a long history of hard labor and misfortunes....

In such a culture, passing your exam and getting the tick on the right box is a life changing deal for most of them. Most of their parents have lived a life of hardship and only want security and order for their kids. Not many Asian parents can afford to say "hey son, go on ...be whatever you want to be" ....even if a person wants to do something different , it is very difficult for an average Asian to hope for a successful life by "doing what ever drives him...and whatever inspires him"....

No matter what you feel ...you are still operating under a society to start with. Isnt it?

So - You must first understand why it happened that way before you make these remarks? What factors are driving such behaviors?

Then maybe you can propose a solution. And if you can't - just shut up and move on. No good is going to come out of this "I am good - they are dumb" mentality.

Indeed ...America produces a lot of noble prize winners and free thinkers. But they are also lucky to be operating in a society that allows them to do so. But how many American kids/adults REALLY appreciate the privilege they are born with a make use of that? How many people "Really commit to excellence”?

Give the poor ASIAN a break guys!

Posted by Sid at August 10, 2006 10:39 PM

Let's not beat down one myth with another. Normal, healthy seven year olds don't commit suicide over test scores any more than sane, rational mothers murder their neighbor's kids over pre-schools slots. When you're talking about 127 million people, there are bound to be a few unbalanced souls whose symptoms will trigger in the vacinity of bad test scores. But, this is hardly a meaningful correlation. If we buy this line of logic, the Twinkie defense deserves a retrial.

However, Tom's initial point that in an apples-to-apples comparison, US kids perform on par with Asians is key because it debunks the No Child Left Behind myth. If US kids test just as well as Asians and they are still kicking our almighty economic butts, then clearly our national education policy is chasing the wrong goals. Our future prosperity demands differentiation of an entirely different sort.

Posted by Paul Haskell at August 11, 2006 7:51 AM

A Notre Dame football coach asked how he motivated his kids replied, "They come motivated; I try not to de-motivate them." Kids, world over "come motivated." Then our schools, world over, teach then fear of failure, suppress creativity, etc.

Great education: Giv 'em some useful tools--then get the hell out of the way.

Hey street kids, even or especially druggies, are motivated and entrepreneurial as all get out--if only we could channel them productively. Mostly, schools can't do that. Only communities (and parents) can.

Posted by tom peters at August 11, 2006 8:02 AM

Another thing about Asia's students, I know Asian engineers in university nearly all graduate in 4 years. That is, you get in by passing that "test," and you nearly always graduate! Strange, my upper middle tier EE program weeded out something like 60% of the freshman class(did not graduate).

After working in Taiwan for many years, I realize, these engineers never got weeded out!! Some definitely needed to!!

The way I look at it, there are ~70% of Asian engineers that possibly should not be "an engineer."

The cream in the US is really cream, the testing statistics get skewed unfairly. For my money, a C+ average Georgia Tech engineer for example, is still pretty damn good and would be cream in Asia.

But...as someone noted, these Asian/Taiwanese people do work hard and are good at being tied to something, and eventually doing it if given enough time. There are computer companies in fields where Oxes with plows were tilling rice only a few years ago.

Posted by Jay Slovic at August 12, 2006 12:27 AM

Quote: "~70% of Asian engineers that possibly should not be an engineer." But "China still graduated 351,537 engineers with four-year degrees" (Christian Science Monitor). So "good" engineers = 351,537 × 30% = 100,000+. USA total = 72,893.
We definitely have a problem ....

Posted by Mike L at August 12, 2006 1:32 AM

Engineering success requires two aspects; those being creativity and implementation. I think it is dangerous to stereotype, but I have found less creativity among Asian engineers. Our concern (if any) is that they can bring a great idea to market faster and with higher quality, because they are driven to work harder, longer and in greater numbers.

Right now, I believe we have the best of both worlds. Creative ideas get thought up in great places like Canada (Ok and the rest of the western world) and they are swiftly brought to market in the Asian factories.

Stereotyping aside, I think it is only a matter of time before they will have both creative ideas and efficient execution...then what?

Maybe, we will have evolved by then to something more important than just producing more and better "things to buy".

Posted by Mike Ray at August 12, 2006 11:32 AM

Tom writes: "Hey street kids, even or especially druggies, are motivated and entrepreneurial as all get out--if only we could channel them productively." As a college teacher who also teaches in an area maximum security prison, I can testify that what Tom says is absolutely on the money. The inmates I teach are entrepreneurs and small businessmen who, more than anyone I have ever encountered, have bought into the American Dream and the entrepreneurial spirit. I have often felt that there would be great opportunity for someone to create small businesses run largely by ex-convicts. If we truly wanted to stop recidivism, that is what we would do. Most of these inmates don't want to go back to their former life, but they will end up doing so because we close every door in their face after they get out.

Posted by Scott Walters at August 13, 2006 1:09 PM

Tom is right on the money about Asian education systems. I've taught in Japan, Korea, and Thailand and while most students don't commit suicide- they are extremely beaten down (Though in my experience, its much worse in North Asia (Korea, Japan) than in Southeast Asia (Thailand)).

The average Japanese middle schooler goes to "regular school" until about 3:00, then goes to tutors or cram schools until 7:00 or later, then comes home and does several hours of homework. Many go to bed at midnight or later, doing homework right up until bedtime.

All of their effort is focused on passing tests and preparing for standardized exams. They have no interest whatsoever in the material. Likewise, the teachers have no interest in helping the students effectively learn, retain what they have learned or use what they have learned. They make no effort to make the material relevant or interesting. Test scores, and only test scores, are valued.

These students are almost universally tired, worn out, bored, and beaten down. Its a sad sight to see young people like this- who exhibit no exuberance, passion, or curiousity. As an English teacher, I can speak directly to the effectiveness of this system in regards to their foreign language learning- it stinks and its totally ineffective!

Of course, education in America is not much better. But until recently, at least a tiny amount of creativity and passion were (begrudgingly) tolerated by (some) teachers.

Sadly, American schools are now going down the Asian path. This strikes me as catastrophically foolish- if The US is indeed depending on design, creativity, and innovation excellence for its economic future.

Posted by AJ Hoge at August 15, 2006 7:51 PM

There was a fascinating review in the July 29th Eocnomist (search term "venturesome consumption) of a paper by Amar Bhidé at the Columbia Business School. Bhidé posits that innovation is not only a result of upstream devlopment of new technologies and inventions, but also (mainly?) a result of, as the review notes, "the downstream process of turning these inventions into products that tempt people to part with their money."In other words, the "...most important part of innovation may be the willingness of consumers, whether individuals or firms, to try new products and services." And that is precisely what America is good at. Facinating perspective (although it plays into a highly materialistic cultural condition) and something that Bhidé maintains is both the fuel of innovation and is much, much harder for Asian nations to embrace. So maybe we in North America worry too much about the wrong thing...

Posted by Peter Heywood at August 15, 2006 8:23 PM

Do American kids appreciate how good they have it? Of course not. We only have our own frame of reference. You can't imagine the conditions in India or even Brazil unless you travel there or do some work to learn about them. That's why when one of my daughters came to me at inter-session in high school and said she wanted to go on the school trip to Paris, I told her that I'd fund the school trip to Ecuador. I felt that my kids should experience a third world country without the insulation they'd wrapte themselves in as adults.

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