Comments

Badmouthing competitors diminishes you. Period.

"Yes, I do hear they're going through a rough patch; but they're a good company and a good competitor and I'm sure they'll sort things out."

...the astonishingly incompetent overpriced foul ball non-responsive idiot-jerks at ...

If it's not OK to badmouth competitors, is their an etiquette for criticising suppliers?

Posted by Mark JF at December 11, 2006 9:52 AM

That is why I have always used a GSM phone, quadband of course!
- works in the U.S., Europe, Latin America, Africa and many other places.
- SIM card can be swapped on the fly to a backup phone - my number goes from handset to handset.

Another good idea is to pick up a backup, disposable phone once "on the ground" in a new locale.

.. or there is always Skype with Internet service.

Posted by Jack at December 11, 2006 10:05 AM

Hi Mark - 'If it's not OK to badmouth competitors, is there etiquette for criticising suppliers?'

Great question

Like everyone else I use my own rules. As a customer I treat a supplier with the same respect I treat everyone else until that supplier lets me down by MY OWN DEFINITION. Lets be honest customers with an IQ on or about freezing point know the difference between a genuine apology and poor standards/lies/inefficiency.

If I am paying for a service I do not receive then I feel ok about slagging off suppliers – ‘If the cap fits’ as we say in the UK.

Bottom line – Suppliers OWE customers.

Posted by Trevor Gay at December 11, 2006 11:48 AM

Most Cellphone frequecy providers (Cingular, T-Mobile, Sprint et. al) are hosebags.

Verizon is worse than most. It's one thing to want lockin, to increase the switching costs, it's another to deliberately disable desireable features of a device because you want to me for another 3-4 dollars a month.

And when a sales weasel at one of your company stores tells me that to get a new phone i'm going to need a new service plan "because the new phones don't work with the old service plans" I'm going to call him a liar to his face and in front of other cutomers.

Why is it so difficult for companies to be honest?

Posted by Billy Oblivion at December 11, 2006 4:20 PM

I'm primarily a Sprint customer, but as they provide ZERO international capability I was forced to secure a backup T-Mobile account which has worked flawlessly for me while in Frankfurt, London and elsewhere.

The posed question, "Is there etiquette for criticising suppliers", is quite interesting.

The short answer is, without question, yes. If there was a rule, I'd say the extent to which one needs to play nice with a supplier is inversely proportionate to the percentage of value (monetary, relationship, whatever) the supplier depends on the customer to provide.

Basically, if you're a vendor's #1 client, feel free to be a hosebag (I like that term, Billy). If you're a lowly, individual college student, be prepared to get hosed.

To these cell providers, we're little more than a college student. Let the hosing commence.

Posted by Brian Bigelow at December 12, 2006 1:07 PM

Hmmm... I'm not comfortable about this. Tom posts that we should respect our competitors and we all pile in with, "Gosh, yes, absolutely." Tom posts calling people "idiot jerks" and we all pile in with, "Yeah, way to go" remarks. Hmmm...

What about if my competitor is Verizon? Am I allowed to call them idiot jerks?

Criticise the service, the product, whatever. But to my mind, characterising all the people in this way - well, I'm afraid I find that just a little demeaning. I'm afraid I have to say I found the post a rather petulant, ill-tempered and rude.

Posted by Mark JF at December 12, 2006 4:29 PM

Hi Tom,

I've used Cingular in the EU sucessfully for a few years. Verizon believes their own advertising but they really even have problems in Brooklyn.

Posted by pall at December 12, 2006 5:25 PM

Hi,

from my point of view the exec´s of Verizon are just a posse of predatory pinheads.

Roman

Posted by Roman at December 12, 2006 7:44 PM

Hi,

Verizon-schmerizon. Like a battered wife who finally gets the courage to leave her abusive husband, I finally left Verizon (as a customer) after years of customer service abuse -- that is, after being belittled and treated inappropriately (rudely, like a child, et al) by horrible customer service "beings" for so long. Their CS bites, but maybe they're not as bad as XM -- who's CS people call me and leave f-words and other vulgar, sexually-explicit messages on my voicemail for my kids to hear, just because I'm trying like hell to cancel my service. (See my site for details.)

Posted by Phil Autelitano at December 13, 2006 12:01 AM

Great comment Phil – your analogy with the battered wife scenario is excellent. You may like to see this link http://simplicityitk.blogspot.com/2006/06/sss-say-sorry-sooner.html#commentsabout an experience I had earlier this year with WANADOO an internet provider here in the UK (now thankfully and unsurprisingly taken over by Orange). After 6 weeks without my connection and denial it was their problem Wanadoo finally admitted to me it was their responsibility ... by then of course it was far too late. I had already switched providers - Wanadoo apology and acceptance came way too late. Had they apologised on the first day I would probably still be with them. In all situations I suspect many frustrated and angry customers vote with their feet and quietly leave the relationship with their provider.

Therefore it follows, by my logic at least, that companies need to listen as much to customers who say little and quietly as those who (like me) say a lot and loudly. Thoughts on that concept?

Posted by Trevor Gay at December 13, 2006 5:29 AM

Amazing how the rules change based on personal needs. Criticize when it is right for ME.

I am afraid this is just another illustration of the toothpaste tube rule..... What comes out of a toothpaste tube? Toothpaste. Why? Becasue that is what is in the tube, and when you squeeze it, only what is truly in the tube can come out.

Build up people, build up competitors, all about people........or only about ME.

Just another case of people in positions of power or perceived power flaunting it for personal gain. Trevor and Tom......I'm very disappointed.

Posted by Phil at December 13, 2006 5:42 AM

Hi Phil -'Criticize when it is right for ME.' - absolutely. If I am a paying customer then I make up my own rules about the quality of that service or the product – that is normal isn’t it? I give providers every possible chance to get it right and if ‘forgiveness of poor customer care’ was an Olympic sport I would win a medal. I give companies chance after chance but eventually as a customer one loses patience. I spent my entire healthcare career praising others, supporting frontline staff and most important respecting our customers in healthcare – the patients and their carers.

I respect your opinion Phil and apologise if anything I have written implies I don’t care about other people. I am unaware I did it.

Posted by Trevor Gay at December 13, 2006 6:30 AM

I'm with Phil and Mark on this one, especially with regard to Mark's remarks about all the genuflecting in these comments. Don't do that--it makes your pants baggy and wears out the knees.

So Verizon's CS stinks, eh? Think seriously about that the next time you are piling on the "India is so powerful" bandwagon. You know, the "New Flat Earth" crusade to recognize that we just can't compete with all those superbly educated workaholic wunderkids in India. Think about it because THAT is exactly where your customer service problems with Verizon (and other companies) begin.

Posted by Mike at December 13, 2006 8:03 AM

Hi Mike - I had never heard of 'genuflecting' being a simple sort of person. As far as I know all I have said is that when I am a 'paying' customer I reserve the absolute right to complain whether that is noisily or quietly. Do we really believe companies that offer crap customer care will improve by just looking within themselves and talking to focus groups? 'Noisy' customers are as welcome as 'quiet' ones and both have a role.

Posted by Trevor Gay at December 13, 2006 11:09 AM

I do not care if you want to complain, Trevor. I just don't think we can have it both ways. There are other, more effective ways of dealing with poor customer service than ranting about them on the internet--especially immediately after and prior to posting about how important it is not to badmouth competitors. My comment about genuflecting referred to the tendency of comment threads on this blog to follow a pattern that smacks of worshipping at the altar of the all-knowing, wise and benevolent Dr. Tom Peters. Which is the LAST thing Dr. Tom would want to happen! Isn't the root of all Tom's messages THINK FOR YOURSELF?

Posted by Mike at December 13, 2006 2:18 PM

Trevor we actually do have some common ground.

You said, "If I am a paying customer then I make up my own rules about the quality of that service or the product – that is normal isn’t it?" I agree 100%.

But in such a public and respected forum, why give us the name? The lesson for us students is the fact that we must not settle for poor service. The lesson is to understand how customers can actually become outraged when expectations are not met, a great reminder of how powerful the emotional side of buying can be.

viagra alternatives in india The fact that a particular supplier is causing the trouble, in this type forum, is irrelevant to me.

When you use the supplier's name, it comes across as simply an attempt to use the power of your name to punish them further.... to show the supplier that you may have more power than them.

As far the perception about caring about people....the terms I saw were, "astonishingly incompetent overpriced foul ball non-responsive idiot-jerks", "What boneheads."

It was just my perception.

Posted by Phil at December 13, 2006 2:46 PM

Hi Mike - one of the joys of this Blog is we can disagree and remain friends :-)

I confess I did ‘rant’ on my Blog earlier this year about pathetic customer care service I received from Wanadoo and I also complained directly to them – as you say there are numerous effective ways to complain.

As regards ‘badmouthing’ there is clear water between a paying customer and a competitor as far as I am concerned. I don’t badmouth competitors as far as I can recall. On the other hand the customer will occasionally react in an angry way – in my case it is always when persistent poor practice had occurred and even lies told. Then the customer is entitled to get annoyed and tell who he/she likes.

As regards ‘hero worship’ I admit I agree with most of what TP promotes but I hope I don’t patronise him. I merely try to learn from him and others like you on this very informative Blog. I am getting ‘free’ consultancy here from experts all over the world and I value that enormously. One reason I give positive feedback about Tom Peters is because I believe he removes most of the crap around management and leadership rather than writing in language that I am not intelligent enough to decipher which is the case in some books I read about management. I try always to speak as I find and as you rightly say Tom would support ‘thinking for myself.’ For me that means I will give positive feedback to those I understand and agree with and just as important I will try to understand the point of view of those I maybe do not agree with. But most of all I hope I am learning.

Posted by Trevor Gay at December 13, 2006 3:35 PM

Phil - I think we are actually agreeing more than we are disagreeing :-)

I hear what you say about ‘naming names’ and maybe that was unnecessary on my part. The fact is in my example it took almost 6 weeks of denials and blaming others before my provider accepted responsibility for something they could easily have admitted from day one. You will see the whole story if you follow that link on my Blog. Ok, I need not have mentioned the provider name. My intention was and is certainly not to exhibit any perceived 'power' I may have as the customer. My intention was merely to give the provider every chance, and then some, to respond to my satisfaction as their customer (which I tried so hard to allow them to do) I decided if they continued to put their head on the block I finally reached a point where I had no hesitation in releasing the guillotine catch. And by the way I also published on my Blog a thank you to the provider a few weeks later when they finally accepted the responsibility and refunded part of my expenses so I assure you I see this thing as a two way street. Of course by that time they had lost my custom which was my whole point about the inevitable consequence of poor customer care

This feels a bit ‘heavy’ for Festive Season Greetings but please accept mine Phil! :-)

Posted by Trevor Gay at December 13, 2006 3:57 PM

1) I don't think you can entirely "make your own rules"about a product or a service. If it is sold on the basis of it will do this and that, then you can only complain if it doesn't do this and that - not because it doesn't do something else.

2) No-one is denying the right to complain, loudly or quietly. My own view is that it should be done politely and with dignity. Namecalling is churlish, demeaning and out of place.

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I do find it odd that Tom's post about Rule #78 stresses, "Decency Rules!" I personally don't find any need to caveat that with, "Except if I think your CS is lousy in which case I'll start calling you names."

Posted by Mark JF at December 14, 2006 2:59 AM

Hi Mark - What I actually said was "If I am a paying customer then I make up my own rules about the QUALITY of that service or the product" - I stand by that.

I was not making a statement about judging the technical capability of a product. I agree with you, that is what I know when I buy something. However when I pay for something I am more than qualified to comment on the QUALITY of the service or the product - 'twas ever thus I think.

Posted by Trevor Gay at December 14, 2006 3:07 PM

So you yhink you have a problem. Try (no really you must not) using three mobile in the UK - easily the worst mobile phone operator I have ever subscribed to in 16 years. Cutting edge technology (supposedly) coupled with the lowest standard of customer service - they will fail!

Posted by Guy Butler at December 16, 2006 2:22 PM

Summer of Love 2007 as worst new concept - oh I mean best ... wooops too late.

Posted by sean at December 17, 2006 6:12 PM