Comments

I read the Taguba article last week and loved it, and so I just bought the book. I'll let you know what I think.

Posted by surya at June 26, 2007 4:29 PM

1. Hilarious TP - trying to make an Abu naked pyramid into "wow" - left liberal lifestyle is what radical Islamists hate & torture only earns their respect if it involves swording a head off.

Posted by sean at June 27, 2007 1:45 PM

I'd like to write more here but the Taguba article has me absolutley reeling. I'm going to check out the Lucifer effect. What truly has been lost here in this country? Soul? Courage? Empathy?

Posted by Chris Bonney at June 27, 2007 4:58 PM

1. Moderate reason via radical social liberal TP & media has been lost Chris - the key story of note lately is "Sir Rushdie" & how "moderate" UK Islamists feel it appropriate that a bomb explode on said courageous Salman and UK supporters of him ... Satanic Verses indeed.

Posted by sean at June 28, 2007 7:56 AM

appreciate the info, i'm getting the book NOW!!! thanks---pk

Posted by PTRADES at June 28, 2007 12:29 PM

Another good read about allegations, leadership and Integrity is Tim Collins' Rules of Engagement which to me spelled out in down to earth terms the complexity of leadship in Iraq

Posted by PaulH at June 29, 2007 11:20 AM

Article is excellent and informative. What are the lessons?

Posted by virk at June 29, 2007 5:07 PM

Wow, sean's out again in force. Point is, if you reckon you've got a better moral and societal code than the other guy you had better hold to it, particularly if you want the other guy to adopt it. If sean hates militant islamists, who are corrupters of a peaceful islamic faith, he should also hate people who corrupt the american ideals of decency. We hold these truths to be self evident, unless you're someone hauled off the street into Abu Ghraib, in which case you're human rights are gone and you can be abused at will. Not good enough by a country mile. America (and all of us) will only win the war on terror by the strength of its (our) ideals. Taguba shows how paper-thin these can be. Respect, Tom.

Posted by Rob at July 1, 2007 1:22 AM

Oops, that should read "your human rights". Early mornings, eh?

Posted by Rob at July 1, 2007 1:32 AM

1. 1000% of what it is though Rob is playing out now in UK - some countries [& you] underestimate & fail to measure & guage Islamfascism perversion - clearly UK is in need of 5,000 more police given their historical ties to Pakistan & large Muslim population. Wolves @ the door & you & TP out chasing Abu rabbits to feel liberal PC.

Posted by sean at July 1, 2007 10:56 AM

I don't think this is about PC at all. MG Taguba had a specific task to investigate according to UCMJ procedures. While somewhat limited in scope, he did everything "by the book." I read the report and it is very much a carefully investigated and documented report. The treatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib clearly violated standard SOP.

If the methods at Abu Ghraib did in fact produce valuable intelligence, then it can be debated that the SOP might need to be changed.

But the facts established in his team's report document specific and egregious breaches of military procedure.

Military officers are trained and taught to live by a code of honor. MG Antonio Taguba adhered to that code. He is an inspiring example of leadership, despite the cost to his career.

Posted by Tim Mund at July 2, 2007 8:05 AM

And a happy July 4 to you, sean. I'm currently not in the UK, though my family is, and of course I'm concerned for them. I don't under-estimate as you assume, just have a different idea of how to deal with it. I am working in (secular) Syria, leading a non-governmental project that aims to change the views and attitudes of 5-15-year-olds. If we succeed, young people here will grow up feeling that the future is something positive over which they have a measure of control, and for which they carry some direct responsibility. It's my belief that the best change to any system comes from within, not imposed from outside. And especially not imposed by unthinking force of arms. If that makes me a pathetic liberal in your book so be it. At least I'm practising what I believe in. But then, so probably are you, in apparently trusting to good ol' ordnance to make the world's a better place.

Posted by Rob at July 4, 2007 1:34 PM

Well said Rob - As a UK resident I am proud to join you in the club of 'pathetic liberals.' Mr Gandhi put is simply and powerfully; 'An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.' Good luck with your excellent work Rob.

Posted by Trevor Gay at July 4, 2007 4:07 PM

Thanks Trevor. I can't claim excellence for the work I'm doing, though. It's a slow process of enabling people to see new possibilities, and it may well take a generation to make a difference. However, I think the only way to win a war of ideas is with better ideas, which is why Abu Ghraib was such a disaster.

My quote of the moment. The prophet Mohammed was asked what a person should do if the world were due to end tomorrow. He replied, "Plant a tree".

Posted by Rob at July 5, 2007 12:59 AM

Rob - It is excellent work that you are doing - It is excellent because you are trying to DO SOMETHING practical to make a difference in the world rather than just talking about it.

My quote of the moment - 'What do I think of Western civilization? I think it would be a very good idea.' Mahatma Gandhi

Posted by Trevor Gay at July 5, 2007 3:22 AM

Whether the actions were justified or not, I think maybe the larger issue here is accountability for those actions. The article has a quote from General Randall Schmidt regarding the conduct at Guantanamo that said "Did the means justify the ends? That's fine...(General Miller) was responsible."

We can argue forever whether the actions at Abu Ghraib were justified or not, but the bottom line is (like any well run corporation) we have to be able to trust our highest ranking military officials to make decisions and be willing to stand by those. Clearly right now we can't do that.

Posted by Teddy G at July 5, 2007 11:39 AM