Comments

It all sound pretty ludicrous, rather absurd, somewhat farcical to me, Richard. (Sorry!) Maybe because, for me, it's not a matter of aim. Presently, what the airlines need most is innovation in customer service and improving scheduled technical repairs. How difficult is it to have a checklist for repairs and follow it? How difficult is it, especially when it is your job, to be courteous and helpful?

Innovation in customer service and repairs do not even seem necessary. But training and a rewards system, along with a simple checklist that is adhered to is most important. How many flights were grounded last week because of the lack of scheduled service? How inconvenient was this for travellers? Tons!

Who really cares about a freaking urinal on a plane? The focus on the unrinal itself, though siting the benefits to ladies, seems rather patriarchal and benign. (Again, sorry) Then again, as stated before, for me, it's not a matter of aim. But, men, is it really that difficult? Harder things I'm sure have been accomplished.

This whole urnial innovation seems like a non-innovation to me. It's hardly what's needed! Do first things right first! Urinals or even singing ones that light up upon deposits will not matter or change the mood of passangers if the first things fail. It seems more like a means to avoid perhaps addressing the need for real innovation in matters that matter most It all seems quite silly to me. (Sorry.)

Posted by Judith Ellis at April 23, 2008 6:07 AM

Richard – I’m with Judith on this one - who cares quite frankly?

But anyway here goes – I have an innovative idea to address the 'aim' issue.

We can appeal to the male competitive instinct and at the same time improve the aim and therefore cleanliness for subsequent users. I suggest our technical whiz kids in 2008 can come up with a sensor system within the bowl of the traditional toilet where there is a scoring system for every male user ranging from zero to 100% for ‘hitting the target’ …..

ANY MAN SCORING 95-100 GETS 1000 BONUS AIR MILES!

By the way … I like to think of myself as a 99% man :-)

I sincerely hope my post does not lower the extremely professional tone of the TP Blog … I always say it’s really not compulsory to be miserable at work.

And Richard … if I didn’t know you better I would swear you are posting this as a belated April fools joke my friend …. Up the Reds by the way. Man United will of course be champions- yet again - by the time we play you so we may just let you win again!

Posted by Trevor Gay at April 23, 2008 7:57 AM

I guess neither of you has ever heard of rest room parity--taught in schools of architecture--because it simply takes longer for women to pee since they have to virtually get undressed and re-clothed every time. Anything that gets the men out of the way faster and using their own "space" is welcome.

Posted by cathy mosca at April 23, 2008 8:45 AM

I agree that the airlines have much greater problems than the restrooms (I, for one, will NEVER fly American Airlines again - over a relatively small matter...but their attitude was big-time bad.)

That doesn't mean, however, that the urinals are a bad idea. I, for one, would greatly appreciate not having to clean the tiny little space, including the floor covered in - um - fluids, before I can do anything, much less use the toilet. Ever been on a long international flight? Yechhhh....

Posted by Mary Schmidt at April 23, 2008 8:56 AM

P.S. Other "why didn't we think of that?" innovations.

Luggage on wheels
Luggage with wheels that the airline baggage carriers couldn't figure out how to break off on the first try.

Posted by Mary Schmidt at April 23, 2008 8:59 AM

Cathy...thank you for the architectural lesson. I had not heard of it. Perhaps the parity issue is what Sir Richard King was actually addressing. (Is it an absolute must to be knighted before such a title? I guess I could have said Richard King, sir. But I like royalty implied in the former.) I've never heard of the parity of which you spoke but I can most certainly agree with getting so many men out of the way so we can take care of business in our whether obvious methodlogical way of say drawing one panty hose leg up then the other.

By the way, did I mess the parity thing in the post? If not spoken of in this term the spirit of the message is nonethelss there, perhaps lessening my patriarchal comment earlier. For this, I may have missed the mark. This makes sense as to why the lines are so much longer in public space. Two heads are most certainly better than one. I couldn't figure this one out. Funny thing, no one else after these many years of personal frustration, could answer the question also. For the life of me I couldn't understand this! But to be honest with you, women may be doing other things. What things? I don't know.

Now that I understand the whole parity issue, women still must be doing something else in the stall that takes so much longer for the same function. I can always manage at the opera, theater, symphony hall, park, etc, to get in and out in record time. And...I've also been known to skip out of our line and pop into the men's room to take care of business. I've never tried a urinal.

Mary...the separation might work in our behalf, alleviating us of clean up detail. But I personally have managed not to do a lot of this on airplanes. Now, when I onced for nine months cleaned industrial floors for a grocery chain and volunteered to clean the bathrooms too when business was slow, I cannot even begin to tell you what I faced nightly while in the men's room. Horror! But I, nonetheless, did my job everyday with joy and was rewarded handsomely in the end. I don't get people who have attitudes while working. The boot is always in order after a while of no change. I would not put up with bad attitudes in my place of work (one that I own!) at all!

Posted by Judith Ellis at April 23, 2008 10:15 AM

Trevor...too funny! Such an innovation for boys learning to aim is already out there. But now, the scoring thing with men being so competitive and all may be just what's needed to improve aim in public spaces.

Posted by Judith Ellis at April 23, 2008 10:21 AM

Thanks Judith - Actually I’m getting really carried away with this aim/target idea now … it must be the weather … How about this ….

Aircraft staff issue a bar coded card to every male going into the toilet that is required to 'lift the lid' and thus activate the ASS (‘aim scoring system’)

When the man comes out of the toilet his name and percentage score is flashed on the TV screens for all passengers to see if he scores less than 90%

Sorry guys – we just have to clean up our act.

I am heavily into the name and shame culture on this one :-)

Posted by Trevor Gay at April 23, 2008 10:50 AM

Trevor...LOL! LOL! LOL!

Posted by Judith Ellis at April 23, 2008 11:00 AM

Trevor, in my book you score 100% for finding a way to fit the phrase 'whiz kids' into all this . . . Judith, you're not far behind. Um, I mean—oh never mind . . .

How about looking at it from the fun perspective this thread has taken: it's not necessarily a major problem worth solving; instead, consider it a soft innovation, one of Seth's 'free prizes'—"the airline where gents never have to put the seat up, and ladies never have to put it down!"

Yes, the big problems need solving. I would so love to arrive on time, with all my luggage and my sanity intact. (Of course, Aer Lingus does all that and serves restaurant quality food as well ;)

But while they're working on those, being remark-able isn't a bad idea. Once in a while, be outrageous just to be outrageous.

(Yes, I'm looking at you, Trevor . . . )

Posted by Joel D Canfield at April 23, 2008 12:00 PM

Richard - your claim of 50% utilization by men peeing is not founded: it assumes that toilet utilization amongst men and women is the same and this may not be the case. If there is a disparity and in fact women use the toilet more frequently than men, they may end up less well served because their more frequent use - which probably takes more time - will now be in fewer facilities (assuming the same number of toilets but conversion of them to strict male / female facilities). On the other hand, if men use the toilet more then they may be worse off while the lady's toilets sit there under-utilised. So, I think on balance (and in the absence of a more detailed survey) unisex loos are the answer.

Posted by Mark JF at April 23, 2008 3:44 PM

What's the bladder with you all!!!

fire get ready set aim!!!! I am sure there is a TP quote on one of the slides somewhere

If men could aim why do we have toilet attendants?

Posted by Patrick at April 23, 2008 4:03 PM

"mundane innovations that had surprising benefits?"
Recently purchased a wide-screen "letterbox" LCD monitor for my computer. Then discovered it can operate in "portrait" mode. Wonderful! At last complete paper document pages are displayed full size, just like the old dedicated word-processing hardware. Crazy thing is that the built-in monitor stand only works in letterbox mode, so had to improvise a portrait-mode stand.

Posted by Mike L. at April 23, 2008 4:14 PM

Mark – your comment on the statistics of peeing must be the best so far this year on TP Blog – I never realised the complexities involved :-)

Patrick – hilarious!

Posted by Trevor Gay at April 23, 2008 6:01 PM

at the risk of this discussion really going to hell, my favorite men's bathroom stall sign at a bar:

"We aim to please.
You aim, too, please."

Posted by erik at April 23, 2008 6:04 PM

Even a target spot would help I'm sure! It is a valid idea. No doubt, women appreiate different service features. I loved a rose in a vase attached to the mirror (which British Airways has) but when I asked my husband and sons if they noticed, I was met with stares of disbelief...
I do agree with the point about attitudes. Travelling with American Airlines was similar to being back in strict kindegarten. We are all choosing to fly less because of the hassle factor.
All of these points are opening the market to small carriers like Porter Airlines which flies out of Toronto Island airport located five minutes from downtown. It has a chic "designed by Wallpaper" waiting lounge and great on board meals in unique packages. The uniforms are by Pink Tartan - a top Canadian designer. They fly to NY and a few destinations and they are my first pick any time I need to fly.

Posted by Jacoline Loewen at April 23, 2008 6:55 PM

Richard King.... I know of a simple innovative approach that has remarkable results... I see people in ALL walks of life being innovative all the time in their approach to their workplace and their colleagues... these people believe in one thing that is not common - they believe that innovators are born not made.... It goes something like this...

Did you go to work today believing "we are the ones we have been waiting for".... when your colleagues questioned your faith in that statement with their cynicism, fear, and doubt... did you immediately understand that they resorted to their negatives because that is part of their defense against your unbounded optimism? did you understand precisely why they would be so fearful of what it might mean to be held accountable for such belief in themselves? did you also understand that they were simply being swamped by their 'group think' which you know can be so full of doubt and mistrust of anyone doing better today than they did yesterday? so what did you do to help them to start believing in themselves in a new way?

You said .... "yes we can! yes we can! yes we can!" as you said it you looked into their eyes and saw their fear.... you knew what they were thinking .... "what do we have to do so that we can be the ones?" this was the question running on a continuous loop inside their heads.... these people do not believe they are innovators they were never trained to be innovators they have no real experience of being successful innovators ..... so what do they do to become the ones? is their question.... it is a reasonable question...

First and foremost you tell them that innovators are not trained AND they are not the product of their experience ..... innovators are born.... they are born with the imagination to perceive a better way of doing things today and tomorrow... but to tap into their natural talent they have to use their great imagination to overcome 'group think', stale patterns, stubborn mindsets, and entrenched continuities of practice....

Use our great imagination? what do you mean by that they ask you.... well it is simple really, just imagine that you are the ones we have been waiting for... do not let those who trumpet their experience be the ones... your imagination is your most prized asset it is your secret key to unlocking an innovative change.... those who oppose you talk about their experience and why what you imagine is not possible... rather than listen to them, or debate them, go prove them wrong! go innovate the little things but make sure that they do make a difference to 'customer care'..... later we can all innovate the big things together....

Richard

Posted by Richard Lipscombe at April 23, 2008 7:40 PM

Mark JF…while I stand 5’ 10 and usually 6’ 1” most days in heels, I may appear more intimidating than some women. I’m not the lilting wallflower, nor the raging bull or barracuda. In the not too distance past I could bench press 210 pounds (OK…with a spotter in reps of 3) and have studied various forms of martial arts for many years. Believe me, I can hold my own, especially having grown up playing contact sports with my seven brothers and five sisters. We had a unisex team of our own.

I use the men’s loo whenever necessary or whenever I simply do not wish to wait in line without hesitation. But I would NOT want to subject my young nieces and other women to such public accommodations!!! There are way too many perverts and weirdoes out there! ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! SCRATCH THAT IDEA!!! NO UNISEX PUBLIC LOOS!!! PERIOD!

Posted by Judith Ellis at April 23, 2008 10:58 PM

This is interesting one,(for man again:-)

Czech republic, Patent File Number 91304, 1959
Razor blades are sharpen in electromagnetic Field of Planet under the pyramid.
''To sharpen the blades, therefore no mechanical, thermal, chemical or electrical (From an artificial source) means are being used.''
http://amasci.com/freenrg/tors/drbl.html

Posted by Ina Matijevic at April 24, 2008 12:36 AM

Trevor, my dads favourite toilet graffiti was "Beware limbo dancers" at the bottom of the door, it wasn't just the humour but the neatness and precision with which it had been writ appealed to his boilersmith's eye for detail! and his imagination in terms of how that neatness was achieved!

Posted by Patrick at April 24, 2008 5:04 AM

So who does decide what is a worthy innovation? I love Richard Lipscombe's response to this blog subject. I am convinced, as I think Richard is, that it is the small innovations (as well as large) that are creating the new world of work all around us. Setting an example of being willing to champion change is what culture change is all about, and successful leaders that I know cherish and celebrate the mundane changes every bit as much as the massive breakthrough innovations.

Incidentally, on a personal note, I avoid at all costs using the loos on planes - as Mary says, the long haul experience is particularly distasteful. Anything that adds value in that arena has got my vote!

Posted by Madeleine at April 24, 2008 5:39 AM

Maybe it's not about whether it is a great innovation, but that it could be developed. Great bragging rights for the company. And soon you may see one of those banned in America commercials for the first airline to have them installed. Maybe AA?

Posted by MikeC at April 24, 2008 7:02 AM

Madeleine...I don't think it's a matter of who decides whether a thing is worthy innovation or not, as if there is a distinguished group of judges set a side with thumbs ready to give the signal...up....or....down. It's the impact of the innovation to elicit change, more than likely change on the culture en masse that matters here. (Is innovation under a bushel where neither light is shed nor impact elicited innovation?) Customers will properly rule on this one and I do not believe that they will do so in favor en masse here.

No amount of "innovation" that does not particularly affect the culture en masse shall be called innovation in the best sense of the word. It is also not a matter of small or large innovation but rather about its impact. While we will have to wait and see about this urinal “innovation,” I doubt it if it will be placed in the market as innovation at all i.e., whether the public will view it as such. We talk a lot here about the importance of the customer forming our businesses; let’s not leave them out now when the “innovation” is ours or when we personally consider it as such. Of course, we will have to wait and see about this particular one, though I hardly doubt it.

Chalk it up to my denseness, but whereas Richard generally makes rather cogent arguments, this one I could not rightfully follow. I think I was duly lost with the attempt to try to spin innovation in a way that is not impact-full and still claim it as such. The two, to me, just do not coalesce. I could, for example, sit all day in my basement, and come up with thousands of “innovative” projects. Unless the projects are brought to market and has an impact on the market itself, what difference does it make that I have created thousands of “innovative” projects? Again, it is not whether there is that distinguished group set aside ready to give the thumbs up or down, but rather it is it’s usefulness on the market that matters most. Urinals on planes to serve the masses as “innovation” in my prediction will just simply not cut it. I could be wrong.

Posted by Judith Ellis at April 24, 2008 7:20 AM

The Richard above in my latest comment is Richard Lipscombe, not King.

Posted by Judith Ellis at April 24, 2008 7:34 AM

It’s amazing how talking about ‘peeing’ gets a rate of comments higher than average. Actually it gives me hope for business.

This subject has 25 comments in less than 2 days. This is way above average – maybe it tells us something about what is really important to people. The topic from Richard King was actually about innovation but sure enough when we talk about the simple things in life and when we make the topic a human interest story we get response.

I was a part time journalist many years ago and my editor always said 'Make it a human interest story and it will make the connection with your reader.' He was right then and that still holds true in today’s highly technical and ‘allegedly’ complex world. Have no fear the basics are still the cutting edge.

Judith – love your response to Mark on Unisex toilets

Jacolene – delighted you like the concept of targeting – I trust you were impressed with the innovative ASS (aim scoring system)

Have to stop now .. It is 12.30 am Friday and nature calls .. I think that’s enough detail :- )

Posted by Trevor Gay at April 24, 2008 6:33 PM

Trevor / Judith: "unisex" in the sense it is a bowl in a single-person cloister, used one after the other by people of any sex.

viagra uk paypal Given my views above about the mistaken use of statistics that might make this a mistake, I wonder if the question ought to ask about other innovations launched on the back of a flawed analysis that generated either great success or massive egg on face?

Posted by Mark JF at April 25, 2008 2:59 AM

MarkJF...come on, man. What are you saying? Single-person cloister...blah...blah...blah... Is this single-person cloister like a porta-potty with a lock-safe plastic latch? How secure is that?

Often times the brillance of misreadings is the enlightenment of another tale told. In other words, the misreading becomes itself a reading, sometimes even greater than the one origninally spun.

Don't get your whole statistics bit. In any event, there is no love lost and certainly no shame in my game.

prescription free viagra

Posted by Judith Ellis at April 25, 2008 3:44 AM

Hi Mark – my memory of History lessons tell me one of the greatest ‘flawed analysis’ is surely Columbus's refusal to accept the statistics, the evidence base and the perceived wisdom of the time from the rationalist camp that the world is flat! My late beloved Dad told me to always be wary of ‘experts’ – a healthy cynicism about the use of statistics is always in my head. And of course Oscar Wilde famously said there are lies damned lies and statistics. I’ll follow my heart on this peeing debate. I don’t like unisex toilets and I don’t like opposite gender cleaners in male/female toilets. Call me old fashioned if you like but some things need to remain single sex options in my opinion and I believe women should have the first call on this matter.

Back to my earlier observation isn’t it fascinating and wonderful what gets us animated for comments on this Blog – tells me a lot about what is really important to people – YES even business people :-)

Posted by Trevor Gay at April 25, 2008 4:03 AM

And...MarkJF...a unisex single-person cloister, which I generally oppose, should include a standard toilet, not a urinal. Tried sitting on the latter?

Posted by Judith Ellis at April 25, 2008 4:43 AM

I thought this was kind of a unique innovation that had surprising benefits. A foldaway hand cart that is just as useful as the traditional grocery carts.

http://www.versacart.us

Posted by Robbin at April 30, 2008 7:00 AM

Joel...not visiting the men's room often, I didn't quite get your bit about "Judith's not far behind...." But after recently seeing Ian Sander's new video book promotion...eureka!...by golly, I've got it. LOL!

Check out Ian's youtube video promotion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzRzIo3fRLY

Posted by Judith Ellis at May 8, 2008 3:37 PM