Comments

I have recently re-read Re-imagine! after a couple of years of my first read and I couldn't believe the number of ideas and "clicks" that got to me on this second read. This is by far, Tom´s greatest book.

Many blessings to all,

Art Gonzalez
Check my Squidoo Lens at: http://www.squidoo.com/quantumknights

Posted by Art Gonzalez at April 21, 2008 5:48 PM

Great article and thanks for the link Cathy. I hope all Chinese business folks read all of Tom's books - they provide the right ethical framework and role model ..

However ... I do take issue with the article.

I am intrigued why we think that by copying the ‘western’ style of management, Chinese business success will be assured. Frankly I am unconvinced by that argument. I think it is a bit rich - to say the least - to pretend we can 'teach' the Chinese anything about an ethical approach to business.

The article is written in a way that implies everything in western business is based on integrity and no favours done through personal connections, whilst it suggests that in China, the lack of integrity in business and reward by personal favours are commonplace. I have never been to China and so I do not feel qualified to say whether the article states the real truth or not but I would like to see more specific evidence rather than stereotype generalisation.

I suggest there is plenty of evidence that to look to the allegedly more civilised, democratic and purer than pure west for leadership and role models in business is not necessarily the best direction to look and certainly not the only direction to look. Frankly the article paints a somewhat arrogant view about how wonderful things are everywhere in the ‘west’ compared to China.

Mahatma Gandhi was once asked

'Mr Gandhi - What do you think of democracy in the west?'

Mr Ghandi thoughtfully replied;

‘I think it would be a very good idea.’

Why do we believe we are in some way superior? It seems to me articles like this perpetuate the myth that some other parts of the world are less than perfect without first looking in the mirror.

Thanks again Cathy. I suspect we can learn as much from China as China can learn from us.

Posted by Trevor Gay at April 21, 2008 7:22 PM

Trevor...I thought you were going to sleep as otherwise indicated on another post. Anyway, thank you for your thoughts here.

Any nation moving to a more industrialized systematic system simply needs examples. Hence, those examples of management in the New York Times article including TP. I think that it is safe to say that we can all learn from each other. But where there has obviously been no such industry examples are necessary.

The Chinese, as did the Japanese, will also develop their own system once they have clear direction on operations and management. Demi went to Asia and the Japanese did pretty well, ya think? Although with regards to engineering, it is believed by some that a few of their designs are simply reversed engineering of American models. We learn from each other whether we acknowledge it or not.

Sometimes we go to extremes in trying to look at all sides and miss the all-important necessity of beginnings. The Chinese need to begin. They are, without doubt, an ancient culture, as are many other cultures such as the African and North American Indian cultures. But when you speak of industry and mass production the West has developed systems that work. Now, do they need constant re-invention? Of course! But the Chinese have to be begin.

I appreciate the spirit of your comment, Trevor.

Posted by Judith Ellis at April 21, 2008 9:32 PM

I found the article very interesting because it made me think about several disconnects between Chinese and Western Management.

I should state up front that I have had almost no contact with Chinese managers or management theory. My only relevant experience came when I negotiated a contract between an Australian high-tech company and a Chinese manufacturing company. These arrangements were concluded in Hong Kong within a week. At the end of the week each party walked away with an agreement written in a language they could not read. A fact that delighted both sides because each knew this was precisely what he needed to impress his backers and/or investors.

I know that this deal was done because there was a strong guanxi between my client and his Chinese counter-part. My client had been a Teacher/Master (ie PHD supervisor)of a precious son and thus had the totally respect and trust of his family. It was his father who negotiated the contract for the Chinese (State controlled) manufacturer. Guanxi was the 'x-factor' that smoothed the way to an historic agreement that could not otherwise have been struck - this agreement continues today.

Back to my disconnect - I sense Chinese business will remain labour-intensive for the next decade or two. Thus Chinese managers will learn a lot if they study C20th western management theory and practice. Meanwhile, I sense equally that C21st western business is going to be less and less about people-based management. Our manual processes are being ruthlessly automated (as we move to more and more self-service) except at the local level where 'customer experience' and tribal loyalties will again prevail.

Thus while the Chinese could learn a great deal from just how we managed business during our labour-intensive period we could learn a great deal from them about guanxi - we could learn about just how important web-based 'clans and tribes' are going to be in transforming business theory and practice at our local level.

In a strange way I see a cross over between our two management cultures as they struggle to manage larger and larger people-based organistions while we struggle to manage smaller and smaller entities based on local trust, loyalty, and our new found sense of 'belonging' to a community not unlike 'guanxi'.

Go figure!

Richard.

Posted by Richard Lipscombe at April 22, 2008 12:32 AM

In Russia we read a lot of books of Western style management. But in many cases these ideas fall short. May be we don't try our best. But may be there must be something like a culture, that can't be developed swiftly.

Posted by Tatiana at April 22, 2008 1:15 AM

All the world is nothing else but reflection.
And who is reflected, may I ask?

Divine Feminem of China absorbs Tom Peters, gentle male energy.
Divine Male of America absorbs Eastern wisdom
of gentle female energy.

Who is teaching whom, if there is only One?

Posted by Ina Matijevic at April 22, 2008 2:17 AM

So do the sales figures support the hypothesis?

I do hope so Tom!

Sent looking out over the Army's criciket ground here in the UK, a feat of precision horticulture!

Have the best of todays.

Patrick

Posted by Patrick at April 22, 2008 2:33 AM

Tatiana...any process or system may fall short when beginning anew. Patience is needed. Things take time to develop and adapt. This adaptation, however, will evolve out of your own culture and way of being and produce something distinctly Russian. There is never a pure overlay of cultures, systems or styles, even within one's own country.

It's almost like when I was learning operatic arias or German Leid and French Chassons. Though the notes were the same for everyone to learn and had been sung by many artists before, what I brought to the role or songs from my studies, experiences, and my very physiology made the role distinct, though it took the same process by all to produce the sound.

Does this make sense to you?

Posted by Judith Ellis at April 22, 2008 3:05 AM

Judith, I fully agree that we need patience to develop our own culture of management. And I also think we should be proactive when developing our businesses in all respects: human resources, relationship with our clients etc. But often I see our companies don't eagerly and willingly strive for excellence. May be it's due to lack of competition in some of our industries.

And I paid attention that the best companies regarding their management are within respectively new industries which appeared after 1991. Industries with long history show obsolete management, technology etc. They are competitive due to resources they got long time ago. Something like brand of strong public business (I mean in mind of our people). And they continuously exploit such resources without looking into the future. And I think if they leapt forward their management skills (taking lessons from Western experience and adding something national) due to their opportunities to invest our progress could be unanimously faster.

Posted by Tatiana at April 22, 2008 6:15 AM

Tatiana...there seems always the challenge of both new and old companies to be relevant, to be up on new technologies and ways of thinking about management that effect change.

Much success in your endeavors. Russia has surely made 360s beginning with its union and then ensuing trade policies. I am sure that the union change alone has been indeed monumental. Best!

Posted by Judith Ellis at April 22, 2008 9:03 AM

Tatiana ... I guess this is straying off the topic here.... BUT...

I went to Russia around ten years ago to explore the possibilities for Joint Ventures with local businesses... I was part of a group of about 30 business people from Europe, US, and elsewhere... We had 'access' to Ministers, relevant government officials, academics, entrepreneurs, night club owners(of course) and factory workers at the coalface... It was winter and it was cold but most people were warm hearted and welcoming - most wanted to be part of the future not relics of the past...

The question for all of them seemed to be what types of futures were open to them right now and just how could western theories, practices, and technologies help them to find the right future state for Russia...

What impressed me the most was the sense I had that Russia will eventually forge a unique and distinctive management culture. Russians were learning valuable lessons about cost curves (management and cost accounting), devolution of power, personal accountability, importance of maintenance, etc. from their Western advisers.

BUT there were many areas in business and in society where we in the West could learn from Russia.

First we could learn a lot from the young Russian women I met who are into science, engineering, medicine, etc where they excel - they still have to juggle their family needs like women in other societies (let's face it men are men everywhere) but they have a much greater sense of meaning in their lives than I often find in young women I meet in my own country.

Second they have and want to retain their inherent sense of community, social coherence, and loyalty amongst friends - a clear and present blessing of their socialism. They are looking to become more efficient and effective in business and family life without destroying the social fabric of Russian society. Individualism and isolation at work and at home is not a goal - rather it is something to be avoided as Russia becomes more and more an open business environment.

Third the Russian transition to a more transparent business culture is a road fraught with difficult choices which as an outsider I can only guess at - however I have every confidence that Russians will find their own pathways to success with this as with everything else.

Finally, Russia is on a journey of discovery that is led by its young people who are energetic, enthusiastic, and forward looking... I get the distinct impression that the long-term future of Russia is in very good hands...

Richard.

Posted by Richard Lipscombe at April 22, 2008 7:00 PM

Fabulous comments Richard about Russia and how the west can learn much from Russia. This was the essence of my comment about the report on China – I believe it is arrogant at best to assume learning is one way.

I feel this whole thing is about mindset – if we believe we can learn we will learn – if we believe we know best we close our minds to learning.

It is fabulous to hear from you Tatiana about the ‘real’ situation in Russia. Your pride, optimism and realism about your great country shines through – I hope we hear more from you.

Posted by Trevor Gay at April 22, 2008 7:22 PM

It seems quite undesirable, even somewhat grandiose, to cover all basis in all interviews to be politically correct or too address all sides of every issue all the time. This is not desirable, nor necessary. It can be too expansive, not addressing issues singularly.

The focus of the article seems to be narrow and this is acceptable. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with a sense or dominance of superiority of Western thought. The Russian people are a great people and will figure this all out over time. (Personally, I love the culture that has produced such great thinkers, poets, scientists and artists.) Now, it's seeking assistance. They are blessed to have the likes of the gentlemen in the article, including TP.

The article is not about what the West can learn from emerging economies. (Maybe this can be another article, as the West can learn tons from others.) This particular article, however, seems to be about how great Western business thinkers, the likes of TP, can make an impact on new emerging economies.

Though the West is well established in business processes and systems, as suggested earlier, it too needs constant innovation and re-imagining. Perhaps the FSW model can be introduced in Russia if it hasn't been already. Why not suggest a great model to put their best foot forward first?

Posted by Judith Ellis at April 23, 2008 12:09 AM

Judith, thank you for encouraging words! I'm sure Western business models impact the Russian businesses. But not overall. We still face a lot of difficulties. It's the problem of our old models when enterprises fulfilled plans without thinking of their clients. As remarkable and famous phrases in the USSR: A Soviet person doesn't need auto. Or we won't develop computer science, we can use our workforce in its stead. I think generation should change. As young people are really forward looking. They are ready to achieve great results.
Richard, thank you for your kind words about my country. But I can't agree about young women. Overwhelming majority are planning to get married and devote their life to their families. Often they work as they don't have another choice (lack of money). And our men commonly don't suspect this.
Trevor great thanks. I do proud of my country despite its problems!

Posted by Tatiana at April 23, 2008 1:17 AM

Tatiana... thank you for your contributions. With regards to the stated problem of "old models when enterprises fulfilled plan without thinking of their clients," TP's body of work is full of answers to such problems. He infuses change within the heart of enterprise in service to others, encouraging actionable results.

I appreciate your idea that "a Soviet person doesn't need automation or would not develop computer science," but it seem inevitable that a Soviet person understand thoroughly the necessity of technology and its impact on global and national economies. I wish you all the very best on achieving great results.

And...no worries about the difficulties; they are only opportunities for great change, great innovation. Continued success to the great Soviet people.

Posted by Judith Ellis at April 23, 2008 5:10 AM

Judith I ment that Soviet people (particularly government) didn't understand advantages of competition and good relationship with clients. And now we change. TP ideas are popular in our country especially within new businesses. And also we don't see ourselves as Soviet people, we are Russian people.

Posted by Tatiana at April 24, 2008 12:16 AM

Tatiana...I appreciate your distinction between the Soviet and Russian people. I am well advised. Thank you.

Glad to hear of the change. Competition on some level is important, as it often distinguishes amid many and often drives down prices for the masses. My first computer, for example, cost me what I then considered to be a mint (an incredibly large amount.) Now, because of innovation and competition, the prices have come down considerably, making the purchasing of computers more accessible for all.

All the best, Tatiana.

Posted by Judith Ellis at April 24, 2008 12:50 AM

Tatiana...last night over the most exquiste meal at Mosaic in downtown Detroit with friends I spoke of our discussion here about the Russian people. A friend told me stories that his dad told him who was a WW II vetran. His father loved the Russian soliders and people as he credits them as among the bravest in the War who stood against Hitler.

I did some research this morning on War II casualities and it appears that of the 50 million civilians and soliders to have lost their lives, the greatest among these were Russians. He relayed a story that his dad told him: "Son, if it weren't for the Russians we would have lost the War. They fought like none others. Where we could not have fought one day more, they charged forward with undying determination." Thank you.

Posted by Judith Ellis at April 24, 2008 8:14 AM

I'm told this is a link to a place to buy the Chinese edition of Re-imagine! If there's anyone reading this who can read the language used, please let me know if I'm wrong!
http://www.dangdang.com/book.asp

Thank you!

Posted by cathy mosca at April 25, 2008 11:41 AM

Re-imagine! just arrived on my doorstep. What a beautiful book it is! Thanks, TP!

Posted by Judith Ellis at April 30, 2008 4:34 PM