Comments

Tom, why don't you fix it? Before you get too old, mortgage the farm, start an airline, quit your bitchin' and do it. Go fix the airline industry.

Posted by Mike Smock at May 7, 2008 9:48 AM

I simply don't buy the thesis that it's the airlines fault because they have self-service kiosks and limited human interaction etc etc. Total garbage. It's because we live in a society in which people regard courtesy and consideration for others as unimportant or even unnecessary. In which they expect their whims to be fulfilled, like, right now, y'know, and anyway it's my, like, right to do, y'know, what I want. In which they'd sue the flight attendant for their embarassment at being called to account.

This sort of behaviour is just plain rude and it's about time we called it that.

Posted by Mark JF at May 7, 2008 10:38 AM

Creative Feedback,
Airlines Take Note,
get flyer friendly
ideally before June
when I next fly!

Posted by Patrick at May 7, 2008 10:49 AM

So, let's read the report and then think about The Living Room Principle shall we...? It's OK to behave like you would never dream of doing in your own living room, if you've annoyed me. Hmmm...

Posted by Mark JF at May 7, 2008 10:59 AM

Mark - with you 100% - Such disgusting personal habits have nothing to do with the airline. It is the individual responsibility of the passenger. I am the first to bad mouth bad customer care but this is different.

Posted by Trevor Gay at May 7, 2008 11:18 AM

Mark, I thought of what you suggest when I wrote that comments protocol blog yesterday. Maybe some people see no-holds-barred behavior as acceptable in their living rooms! Certainly some of the language we don't want to see on tp.com is acceptable in my house ... on occasion ... if the babies aren't listening. As you say, it's the breakdown in behavior standards in general that contibutes to the problem, though I think the WSJ writer is correct that getting back at the airlines plays a big part.

Posted by cathy mosca at May 7, 2008 11:29 AM

While people are responsible for their own behavior, I've noticed a huge increase in flight attendant apathy that creates an environment in which anything that doesn't violate federal law is fine. For example, if the flight attendant had asked the couple from the WSJ story to stop making out in first class, the situation would have been resolved. Sometimes all it takes to maintain civility is a disapproving look or gentle question (Do you know you can dispose of the diaper in the aft restroom trash?) from someone perceived to have some authority.

Posted by P.K. Scott at May 7, 2008 11:47 AM

P.K.Scott...I really like your appraoch.

MarkJF...if it's allowed to happen on their planes, it is their fault.

And please... let's not pretend that we all do not know what acceptable behavior is. But in case we don't, clearly defined guidelines and protocols will do.

Those soft skills that we often speak about here need implementing as a way of how business is done. Training and feedback are essential.

TP...if you ever elect to "fix the airline industry," I'd love to be a part of your team.

Posted by Judith Ellis at May 7, 2008 12:22 PM

Judith: "...if it's allowed to happen on their planes, it is their fault..." So presumably if someone climbs through an open window into the house and murders your spouse, it's your fault for letting them do it?

And if we're blaming the flight attendants for not stopping the "romantic" couple (which I agree they should have) why aren't we trying to empathise with them and excusing them on the grounds they feared for their safety in doing so? Why do we argue that bad behavior is excused simply because no-one had the gumption to call it? Bad behavior = bad behavior = bad behavior.

We routinely complain about the poor behavior of CEO's and others on this blog. What moral compass are we steering by when we say airlines get the customers they deserve but those customers don't get the CEO they deserve?

Chickens, eggs, pots and kettles!

Posted by Mark JF at May 7, 2008 1:26 PM

Whatever is in there it is feedback!

Posted by Patrick at May 7, 2008 1:44 PM

MarkJF...WOW! Your analogy leaves me nearly speechless. It's a tad strong...you think? We go from making out to murder. Any way, the point that I was making is that as an owner of a business the buck ultimately stops with me.

While we're on the topic of word choices, I don't think its a matter of "fault" to recapticulate your word or "blame." It is a matter of setting appropiate behavioral standards and training staff appropriately. (Aren't there air marshalls aboard that could assist flight attendants in case of violence? Though, P.K Scott addresses this point beautifully. With some tact and skill, air marshall may not be needed.) You will never have a problem with me with addressing bad behavior appropriately.

While we're on the topic of behaviors, my brother was an associate youth pastor at an church of nearly 10,000 people, 95% were mainly non-African Americans, before he became a senior pastor. My mother went there to support him and became an elder. Not being accustomed to such open displays of affection in church, where it was typical for spouses to rub the backs and necks of their loved ones while the sermon was being delivered, my mom would just about comment on this every Sunday.

This was a major pet peeve of hers. But is was obviously not to the thousands in attendance. For them, it was a bonding time on a Sunday morning. I didn't mind it terribly. I simply tell the story to say that some things are appropriate to some but inappropriate to others. I do, however, think that generally speaking, we understand what is or isn't acceptable in certain environments and where there is doubt guidelines are good.

There are other points to address in your comment, but I will end now as not to go to long. I'm trying to stay within proper protocol. I may have already stepped outside of the boundary.

Posted by Judith Ellis at May 7, 2008 3:07 PM

Sometimes, I think that abuse of public spaces (including airline cabins, roads and even discussion forums) happens because people are looking to take out their daily stresses on someone/something.

Posted by Chetan Dhruve at May 8, 2008 1:31 AM

Flying is always a great time for YOU if YOU love to read... If YOU do love to read then I recommend 'Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance' by Robert M Pirsig... If you can get into the Zen of Robert M Pirsig discussing 'quality' you will not notice those around YOU...

Richard.

Posted by Richard Lipscombe at May 8, 2008 2:36 AM

On my first flight I didn't see nothing of this, only a young woman in nun clothes from America. We were talking , I gave her my dearest thing, picture of Jesus. She started to cry, that was the sign for her to stay in convent.It was the same picture she has on Church oltar.

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Posted by Ina Matijevic at May 8, 2008 3:32 AM

not one cause, not one fault

The whole thing needs to be looked at holistically. Unfortunatly much of what causes stress in flying would be difficult to cure without huge investment (I am thinking about everything from traffic congestion to get to the airport, check in queues, baggage etc)

Posted by PaulH at May 8, 2008 7:45 AM

Dude....I fly too much to hear those sick examples. I guess rubber gloves are my new travel companion.
Of course, we will still have to deal with that woman who buys some fast ffod, waits three hours to eat it and then exposes the whole plane to her foul stench. Can you say Web-X?

Posted by Scott Swift at May 8, 2008 9:36 AM

PaulH...I agree. But perhaps the "huge investment" can begin with a simple checklist and feedback system. "Did we make you smile?" Check! "Did your luggage arrive with you?" Check! "Did you check wiring in the auxiliary hydraulic system?" Check!

This may be an oversimplification of the process, but I am a big proponent of taking care of the small things in manageable ways. This will take care of the big stuff. I am also a big proponent of doing our first works again, keeping the first things first.

Posted by Judith Ellis at May 8, 2008 11:17 AM

CRAP! I read the article first and should have just read your post Tom. Couldn't agree more.

Posted by Andrew Hayden at May 8, 2008 11:18 AM

About an hour into a recent flight from DFW to LGA, a man in front of me lost it with the flight attendant. He asked (I thought politely) for some peanuts, a snack, anything. She told him that there was food for sale, but that the airline (American) "had never given snacks for free". He started getting upset and then asked what food was available. To this he was told that everything was sold out except for something for $6 he didn't want. (I think it was potato chips.)

We were in the first 1/3 of the aircraft.

Posted by Alec Satin at May 9, 2008 5:29 AM

Ina...thank you for your thoughtfulness in releasing something that was valuable to you to someone else. I find that when we are thoughtful towards others great things happen in the atmosphere, creating bonds with people that may have otherwise not been and solidifying purpose and direction which otherwise might have been lost.

Others, even perfect strangers, have helped me to find my way with a single word or two. Thoughtfulness carries on even after the meeting has passed, towards the person you have directly affected as well as countless others with whom you both will come in contact.

On a day to day basis how thoughtful are we? Being thoughtful requires an awareness of others and a certain largesse of spirit. Be thoughtful towards others. The return is boundless.

Posted by Judith Ellis at May 9, 2008 7:51 AM