Comments

I took a training course at Zingermans and they spoke on their hiring of great people. They look for people to smile in an interview. Some would say, "There's a lot of pressure in an interview, that's an unrealistic expectation."
Their response: "You think an interview is high pressure? Try working behind a deli counter when your customer's favorite meat is out of stock, the lines are long, and your customer wants to blame someone for the bad day their having. Now that's pressure." In that situation, one of the most important things an employee can do is smile while working to the good of the customer.
Similar to Tom's comments: they don't say the interviewee/employee has to be a "ball of fire", just pleasant, caring, and engaged in the moment.
I end this already long “comment” with a comment about the airlines. One reason I believe Southwest has done well is that their people smile. I know they can sometimes do that over-the-top thing, but more than that a smile and a friendly demeanor are what rule the day.

Posted by Todd Reed at May 30, 2008 9:31 AM

'If we could truly appreciate those two sentiments, and incorporate them into, as businesspeople, our enterprises' DNA, I think it would make a world of difference—and be the ultimate "blue ocean."

Tom - how true .. and how sad. I refuse to understand WHY ‘businesspeople’ and ‘enterprises’ have to be TOLD to be nice to fellow human beings. I can already hear folks saying ‘Here goes Trevor again, making things far too simple – he doesn’t understand!’ I plead 100% guilty.

Posted by Trevor Gay at May 30, 2008 10:39 AM

Trevor. I don't understand either but I suspect that the truly great organizations/businesses do not have to tell their employees to be nice. They simply create an environment that gives people no reason to act otherwise. At least I hope thats the case. Sadly I can only think of a few examples.

Posted by bruce at May 30, 2008 11:20 AM

I've realized of late that my goal in business is to be thought of as the Benton Fraser of my field. (If you're a fan of the TV show "Due South" this needs no explanation; if not, none would suffice, methinks.)

From a purely mercenary perspective, at least it's easier to stand out when you're polite and kind and others have to keep being reminded ;)

Posted by Joel D Canfield at May 30, 2008 11:48 AM

Yet, how many companies, organizations, departments, or bosses go without ever expressing appreciation for the “Mary’s” of the world. The two most vulgar words in the business dictionary are “Thank You”. I wonder how many times Mary’s boss was there at 3:59Am to hand Mary her own coffee and say thanks for coming in today. Perhaps, things happen so fast and furious that time doesn’t allow for that or maybe, it’s out of vogue. Does it show weakness to express appreciation or to say great job? Is our middle-managers afraid that if they praise someone the balance of condemnation will some how be skewed. Maybe we need a big sign “Did you thank someone today?”

Posted by RTodd at May 30, 2008 12:34 PM

What pleasure. What brilliance. What beauty. What truth. What simple rememberance. I LOVE the two quotes by Henry Clay and Philo of Alexandria. I had not come across the latter before having read it a few months back on this blog. It is one of my favorites of all time. Not only is it good for others in that it makes their day a little better, it is good also for me. It is a simple reminder to be forever kind. Most days I'm successful, some days I'm not. Thank you.

Posted by Judith Ellis at May 30, 2008 12:58 PM

Enjoyed the post! Very sorry about the multiple trackbacks. Not sure why that happened.

Posted by Lloyd Lemons at May 30, 2008 2:05 PM

The story raises the question in my mind: How much responsibility does the customer have to manage the Moment of Truth? Maybe the lady concerned had become fed up with rising at an ungodly hour to work in a place where people didn't want to do much more than buy a coffee and sit in silence. Maybe she felt she was trying to deliver a Moment of Truth but no-one wanted to engage with it? Maybe if someone had engaged her a bit more or done / said something to make her feel she was appreciated she wouldn't have left?

Posted by Mark JF at May 30, 2008 2:41 PM

Tom ... the story is the message... but isn't that so often the case TOM... if the Chattering Clusters pick up on that story and tell and re-tell it within their Clans and Tribes then the world will be a better place... I remember a story you told many a year ago about talking to the best woman in the workplace (as I recall she sorted cards the quickest or some such thing).. she was proud to be the best - she was the envy of the shop no doubt BUT you asked her a 'Moment of Truth' question (I have never forgotten it because I re-tell this story time and time again on client sites alas I probably get it wrong TOM but my story inspired by you and Jan Carlzon works a treat) "why do you do this to the cards?" .. the answer is "I don't know - all I know is I am the best at it"... the moment of truth comes to us all when we know why we do what we do - we understand ourselves and thus we can think about others more than we think about ourselves... Jan Carlzon turned around SAS, when it was struggling and down at the heels, by noting that their airline business was simply a series of these 'moments of truth'... as I recall TOM he suggested that if you get one moment right with a customer they will forgive you multiple bad experiences down the track but if you screw up in the first place they will never forget or forgive... indeed their anger at you as a company increases and results in more and more bad moments (this partially picks up on the point that MarkJF makes I think?) I tell my teenage boys that life is blessed with moments of truth - be there be present don't miss them and make as many of them as you possibly can in your personal and business life for if you do you will be lucky, healthy, and happy... Richard.

Posted by Richard Lipscombe at May 30, 2008 6:54 PM

Damn fine post - in its way, among the best ever.

>they brought a little sunlight into others' lives via the most fleeting moments of contact.

Absolutely. 'I just want... a little of that human touch.'

Where's O'Leary? He does rock lyrics better than me.

Posted by gulliver at May 31, 2008 3:34 AM

I'm in complete agreement about this post. It's so easy, so power-packed, so touching. I love love love it!

And...where is O'Leary?

Posted by Judith Ellis at May 31, 2008 4:30 AM

gulliver... good to see you rejoining the fray here in this Chattering Cluster AND to hear that you intend to extend the scope of this group with a dedicated Tom Peters fan club site... I will watch that development with great interest - it will be intriguing to see just how quickly you can get your Chattering Clans and Chattering Tribes to form and what quality of discussion you can evoke within your forum from such a tightly focussed group.... I note that your viral marketing campaign is already up and about and working very well as Trevor Gay is already chattering about your new site through emails... Oh, how I just love this new C21st digital world of business where all it takes to get skin in the game is to have an idea, passion, and access to the internet... we do all live in a wonderful new world of work - a flat world where a guy on the other side of the world to me (this case you "g" with loads of passion and a sense for an opportunity) can ferment a idea in a nanosecond by simply adding a good storyline to it and then see it spring into life around the globe... with this new venture, as with everything mate, I wish you nothing but success... Richard

Posted by Richard Lipscombe at May 31, 2008 5:01 PM

Richard, I love beauty (including its underside from which beauty often springs--if nothing less than a wicked determination amid seemingly impossibilities.) You have just written with such beauty here. Thank you.

Posted by Judith Ellis at May 31, 2008 5:27 PM

Judith... Thank you so much I am truly touched by your remark.. You prompted me to remember catching a flight from Sydney to Hong Kong and then beyond... My wife and our then much younger two boys came to see my off at the Airport... As we lived way outside the metro area their car trip home was 2-3 hours... We all joked I would be about a third my way to Honkers before they got home.. So as you do I tried to get them into the VIP lounge to wait with me before my flight... NO WAY! I was told sternly that they were FULL and I they could not be accommodated - was it the kids they did not want in there? Probably! I must say I have sympathy for their case - who wants kids around in a place like that.. But I was mad about it.. I was still mad when I got on the aircraft... Into the flight this attractive women seated next to me asked me what business I was in - as I never know the answer to that question I told her I was a management consultant and this airline should hire me to sort out their customer service... She immediately revealed that she was the boss of the Airline's Customer Service (of course otherwise why tell this story) and she told me I was correct... She told me that her staff had "failed" their moment of truth (Tom you are not surprised to hear that she knew all about SAS and Jan Carlzon)... She said her ground crew had failed her - not because they correctly enacted their policy but because they did not make proper 'contact' with me or my family... She explained that if a customer gets on an aircraft upset, disappointed, or just downright angry with the ground crew then the whole issue usually, no almost always, escalates on the flight... By mishandling a simple request - a moment of truth - on the ground those staff can create havoc for their in flight customer service crew... She understood that the message is the story - ie the story running in the customer's head and the one that customer wants to share with everyone he or she meets...Richard

Posted by Richard Lipscombe at May 31, 2008 6:54 PM

Beautiful, once again, Richard! Got another?

Posted by Judith Ellis at May 31, 2008 7:52 PM

Oh...Richard...check out the Leadership post below. I added something there for you.

Posted by Judith Ellis at May 31, 2008 7:55 PM

Nice thread. Gulliver, you quote Springsteen well. ZZ Top said it even more tersely: "I'm just looking for some touch." But I think Joni Mitchell sums up Tom's sentiment best: "Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you got til it's gone." Meanwhile I wonder why the "Be kind..." quote is often attributed to Plato when no one (as far as I know) has ever found it in his writings.

Posted by John O'Leary at May 31, 2008 8:26 PM

Ah good, Mister O'L arrives. ;-)

And as for my friend from downunder's earlier remark... Richard, as you well-know it's not a bloody 'perish the thought' fan club - noting the man's contribution to effective enterprise is simply the decent thing to do.

Posted by g at June 1, 2008 12:05 AM

Hear, hear, g! I had not the words to respond to this particular comment. But you have done well. Thank you.

Posted by Judith Ellis at June 1, 2008 12:54 AM

gulliver....whatever... good luck with it my friend... Richard...

Posted by Richard Lipscombe at June 1, 2008 5:26 AM

Well done Gulliver - keep up the good work. Tom’s writing and speaking has been inspirational for me and millions of others world wide so I will carry on supporting ‘g’ in his efforts. No one in the last 30 years comes within a country mile of Tom Peters for popularising management. leadership and business. Tom has, thank God, removed most of the pretentious mythology and b******t about management and business being some complex, academic, scientific, rational subject when in fact it is really about passion for what we do; listening to customers; and valuing our employees. I love the idea Gulliver has of acknowledging what impact Tom Peters has had on individuals – he certainly has influenced me greatly. And as the founder of the site puts it so eloquently;

'it is not a 'bloody 'perish the thought' fan club'

Good on you 'g' - I just love your brilliant use of the Queens English!!

Posted by Trevor Gay at June 1, 2008 11:44 AM

Even if it was a " a 'bloody 'perish the thought' fan club'"...who cares?

Celebrating the great stuff folks do or thanking them for the impact they have on one's life is a marvelous thing...and as "g" points out the decent thing to do. Might give the "clusters" something worthwhile (and factual for a change) to chatter about...

Dave Wheeler....F.O.T....(Fan of Tom)...works for me!

Posted by Dave Wheeler at June 1, 2008 2:17 PM

Damn. Now the whole thread seems to have veered off-course to irrelevant stuff. Let's try to pull it back...

>If we could truly appreciate those two sentiments, and incorporate them into, as businesspeople, our enterprises' DNA, I think it would make a world of difference.

Abso-******-lutely! And, think just how much better we'll be when we meld them into ourselves as humans first, 'businesspeople' second.

Posted by g at June 1, 2008 3:45 PM

gulliver... if it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck it is a duck! BUT no it is .... wait for it.... A Black Swan! I love how the Chattering Clusters get to decide what is important - that is why I love Facebook and the way the Chattering Clusters on there decided to screw over management when the "toddler CEO" tried to direct advertising to my friends about what I bought .. Push marketing (Brand and Brand You type advertising or positioning) does not work in the digital media like Facebook and as far as I can see will never work with Chattering Clusters.... Which means you can not push content, purpose, or format too much within the clusters... they will decide form and function not you "g" on your new site.. I have already learned "g" that the Chattering Clusters spin off into Clans and Tribes... They are so apparent here on this site... You will find that it is virtually impossible to become the 'gatekeeper' on their chatter... You can facilitate it, you can endeavour to give it purpose as Dave Wheeler implies you might do with his comment above... I sense you will end up with a dominance of Chattering Tribes on your new site, given the singular focus you have on Tom Peters, and this will essentially mean it becomes a fan club (as Dave says so eloquently nothing wrong with that if that what you want to be part of)... But even with a site confined to Chattering Tribes you can not control the content or more precisely the flow of conversations.. That is why I so much admire this tompeters! site it is the perfect outlet for all the Chattering Clusters, Clans and Tribes... Tom inputs the 'red flags' and all the chatterers charge in but the actual chattering rarely stays on topic or even in context... So again "g" I say all the best my friend and thanks for your kind email! Richard.

Posted by Richard Lipscombe at June 1, 2008 5:01 PM

"Abso-******-lutely! And, think just how much better we'll be when we meld them into ourselves as humans first, 'businesspeople' second."

"They" (the "leadership gurus" I respect, like Warren Bennis) agree, ever so loudly, that a leader must first and foremost focus on himself-herself. No not narcissism (sp?), but a knowledge of who one is, what one stands for, how one is perceived, etc.

The good news relative to "all this" in the Post: You simply cannot fake it! (Or perhaps you can for a day--not a week, though.)

Posted by tom peters at June 1, 2008 5:57 PM

Maybe I'm missing the larger point here, but this melding others into ourselves bit does not sit terribly well with me. I understand learning from others but seeking to meld into someone else is not desirable to me. Where is the individuality in this? Where is the distinction here? Where is the diversity of thought needed? Maybe it's just a matter of word choice rather than assuming the identity of another. This is not a good idea.

I like TP's notion of understanding yourself first before beginning to lead others. How can one even lead without this basic fundamental truth of leadership? Understanding "who one is, what one stands for, and how one is perceived," is most important. The axiom, "know thyself" seems fundamental to the who. "If a man does not stand for something, he'll fall for anything" seems essential to the what. And, perceptions (ours and others) seem important to how things get done.

Agreed. It's not possible to fake things indefinetly. The corners of our mouths, the light or lack thereof of our eyes, and our furled brow will give us away over time, if our speech does not betray us first.

Posted by Judith Ellis at June 2, 2008 1:02 AM

Jeez, just how difficult do some folk want to make simplicity? (Damn, that word will have woken-up Trevor... now it'll all veer toward football and hospitals.)

Meld=incorporate.
Here's the recipe:
1 Take a person.
2 Add Courtesy and kindness.
3 Done.

What's so difficult about that?

Bipolars 1 - Anally-retentives 0.

;-)

Posted by g at June 2, 2008 2:47 AM

Yes, as a customer it makes sense for me. But as a manager managing 300 folks in an org of 70,000 folks, its pretty overwhelming. remember business school teaches managers to take optimum decisions, not best decisions. given I am from a developing country like India, Service is non-existent. But our ancient industries did do stuff personalized. the mistake seems to be that we are going by how the western world stratifies customers into segments. Time to rewind?

Posted by chandra kumar at June 2, 2008 3:01 AM

Hi g - Promise I won’t mention football or hospitals my friend. Tell me about it! I’ve spent at least the last 30 years of my life promoting the view that we make simplicity unnecessarily difficult. I’m not stupid enough to suggest complexity doesn’t exist but most things, in my life anyway, have simplicity at the centre. I often wonder if it is as simple how we see the world. I believe this is where Tom’s call for us to ‘self evaluate’ is central to the argument. Simplicity is (should be) a universal language and it is in our language that simplicity flourishes or dies. Until ‘In Search of Excellence’ came along I found not a single management book I enjoyed reading. I admit I was probably looking in the wrong places but this was the first book on management that made any sense to me because of its simplicity. Obviously a few million others round the planet felt the same way …. So that is pretty re-assuring!

Great to see you getting comments on your new site – As always Seth Godin’s simplicity is outstanding. http://thankstom.com/2008/June/01/6/

Two greater minds than mine on ‘simplicity’ gave us these gems that I use regularly.

"Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity." Charles Mingus

"Genius is the ability to reduce the complicated to the simple" – C. W. Ceran

I would argue both Tom Peters and Seth Godin are fabulous role models for both these quotes. Keep keeping it simple g :-)

Posted by Trevor Gay at June 2, 2008 4:11 AM

g....but the question remains what are we incorporating? What are we melding? The person's ideas? His/her personality? Identity? I am afraid you have over-simplified a far more complicated matter in your receipe... if indeed it is a recipe in "seach of excellence." The difficulty in your recipe is that it is far too simple. Well, maybe not for the basics of human relations, as courtesy and kindness are indeed foundational. But now that that is laid, where do we go from there? (Here's a general thought for all: does a smiley face lighten every remark?)

Another thing...the notion of simplicity did not arrive on the scene when either of us started using it or redefining it. One of my major pet peeves is to take a word, any word, and ascribe it to a person contextually, making the concept attributal to one person or event. (Because of the spirit of TP's message, in contrast, one never gets the sense that the word "excellence" is owned by him, that it is synonomous with him, TP. His ideas far exceed him, as they truly embrace those of many in his words and in his deeds, when he speaks or when he writes. The basic core is humility and non-possessiveness.) There should be no confiscation of any word or concept, as in a much larger and broader sense words and concepts have been around since consciousness.

We tend to want to possess words and concepts...perhaps partially to distinquish ourselves and thereby elevating OUR ideas, perhaps over anothers. This limits and narrows the word or concept, whereas what is needed is discussion and inclusion by many in a non-possessive manner, that adds and takes away no matter where the idea originated, usually way before the birth of any of us.

Posted by Judith Ellis at June 2, 2008 6:13 AM

And speaking of over-simplification which can be tantamount to complexity (the brain cells required for both are probably the same i.e., the necessity to simplify something that is already simple enough), TP's post stands on it own here. I do not even see a reason to even pick this one apart. This "I'll Miss You. (I Already Do)" post is simply beautiful.

Posted by Judith Ellis at June 2, 2008 6:21 AM

Chandra...would it be safe to say that all markets do not require the same thing? While there are the basics of customer service there may be some specific requirements, or better yet, expectations, considering the market. Perhaps this is the stratification to which you refer? Please share...what are a few of the ancient ways of personalizing stuff?

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Posted by Judith Ellis at June 2, 2008 7:48 AM

>g....but the question remains what are we incorporating?

Judith... 'question remains'? Not to me it don't.

And 'what are we incorporating'? With more time and less to do with it I'd still likely retort 'common sense & decency - the better parts of humanity'.

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'Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows', I'll leave the chatterati to analyze everything to death. Just how many times DO you need to see your name on one page?

For me, this whole thread long-since lost its focus, so to hell with it - I'm gone. ;-)

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'So shut up, live, travel, adventure, bless, and don't be sorry.'

Posted by g at June 2, 2008 8:17 AM

Maybe it's time we revert back to running business as would a Mom and Pop! In looking at the world of retail and like business today, it appears that many Mom and Pop's had it right, and certainly more right than anything we find today. Can anyone tell me about a relationship they have at a big box store, or for that matter a convenience store? Every day we all see those moments of truth become just another warm body getting in the way of a clerk's day.

Jack

Posted by Jack at June 2, 2008 9:23 AM

Regarding my question, very cute, g, but can you help me?

How many times the name appears is not what's important...or, whose name for that matter. What is most important are the ideas. If you're opposed to such, why even participate? Any time my name appears, it appears as thought, agree with it or not. Agreement is not paramount.

Be assured that I am out DOING IT in the world... on many fronts. Are you? My ideas have always converted to actions. Most times I am successful, sometimes I'm not. I hope that you will indeed return to read this comment, although you are "gone." Will you be returning? You will be missed, if only momentarily.

By the way, what is your given name...g? And the next time, should you return, oh, relevant poignant nameless one, can you re-focus us? That way we will be assured of a more fruitful discussion. Here's a thought. Did you not make any salient contributions to the discussion here? I thought you did. Maybe it was after your points that we waxed irrelevant.

Posted by Judith Ellis at June 2, 2008 12:49 PM

Judith .... You have shown what it takes to pursue "excellence" here in this discussion and your pursuit of "g"... In doing that you are on the topic and in context with this tompeters! site...

Tom....The thing that "I'll Miss You! (I Already Do.)" is all about for me is the essence of community, business, family, and life... Tom has captured that essence within his own reflections and then imparted those feelings, his feelings, to us... For me the essence of Tom's piece is his sense of 'belonging' to a time and space - then as he seemed to repeat it when he was in Boston, to a ritual... This ritual was associated with a business in his mind that is the simplicity of the matter... But as Tom discovered, even though he did not have a true sense of friendship or a more meaningful knowing of this woman other than her consistent presence, he missed her when she was no longer there... This is the complexity of being human... Given that Tom writes about the human elements of business this is a seminal piece for me - he is writing about a ghost like presence that makes the whole enterprise 'excel' for him - he is writing a tribute to a woman who would not guess that he noticed her with such longing - if even in retrospect... This is the complexity not the simplicity that people bring to a business transaction... We all often read about, and I often write about, the customer experience well this is it - it is complex, it is full of unexpected pleasures and mishaps, it is mostly about a sense of belonging to a space and time... Tom writes about this space and time a lot... For example Tom urges us to think about how we sell to women - he demonstrates that to do that well we have to better understand women and what it is that will make their purchasing experience a good space and time - same for the rich old folk... Tom is right to point this out but I get frustrated with it because there are so many, seemingly more exciting things to chatter about... Tom has, on a few occasions, taken me to task when I strayed off into the systems side of business (I love to chatter about new age and internet networks like Google, Amazon, etc) as he rightly should because he has spent a lifetime caring about people in business not just the business of business.... Thanks for this piece Tom - your message here is pure simplicity in a world of business that is all about people and when anything is all about people then simplicity is a hard won achievement.... Richard.

Posted by Richard Lipscombe at June 2, 2008 5:40 PM

Bravo, Richard!

Posted by Judith Ellis at June 2, 2008 10:59 PM

@ Judith, As I have seen during my travels, customers at the core remain customers with the same set of requirements across the world - basically delivery on time, products which work for a reasonable period of time, timely response. right now stratification into segments works against these basics. Its a Push-all-you-can marketing and get-new-versions phenomena. nobody seems to be having time for anyone else,including customers.
What most Ancient industries did was slower,customized, dyed-in-local-culture products.these also didnt harm the environment nor had other socio-economic impacts. e.g. Milk was sold door to door from natural cows. Now Milk is mass produced from bovines which are injected with Pencillin(banned for humans) which anyway lands in the milk meant for humans. All in the name of Mass production at lowest cost under leading FMCG branding. If Henry Fords assembly line technique is misused in this fashion,where does it leave customer service? viagra 100 mg best price

Posted by chandra kumar at June 3, 2008 6:19 AM

Thank you, Chandra. It appears that the ancient industries (or present ones) anywhere in the world, seemed to have developed processess from natural means based on need. But manufacturing is also a process developed from natural means, as it is we ourselves who have created it based on our current global needs. What our focus should perhaps be, as is increasingly the case, is how such processes are created to maximize demand, conserve energy, and become more environmentally conscious, while remaining in touch with one another. No worries about the earth. The earth will remain.

It seems to me that we need to be reminded of better processes that will keep us and the earth and all of its inhabitants healthy. The more things change, the more they stay the same. We are only in a different phase. And being from Detroit, the home of mass production, I'm not at all hating on Ford, nor on the glories that such assembly lines produced which effected all industries, not just the car industry. Enlightenment, however, comes in stages. What matters is what we do with it when it arrives.

We are not trying to go back to pre-mass production days. (Imagine what this would be like? I probably would not have this laptop that I'm now typing on. Imagine the strife and ill feeling this would create by not getting what a select few had? The cost would be astronomical, limiting products to a very few. I'm sure developing nations understand this better than others.) But what we should be perhaps trying to recover, while forever advancing forward, is the notion of being forever human, being forever in touch with each other.

Being in touch is crucial to customer service, a service that does not begin at work, but at home and in EVERY person that we meet. Customer service is not an on and off valve, nor is it an inherent negative of mass production. It is perhaps a cause which effect we can change. Service is continuous. It's being. It's who we are.

Posted by Judith Ellis at June 3, 2008 7:25 AM

Well, I'm sidling towards g's corner, just to stir things up a bit. As someone who only pops in here from time to time I'm struck by the current rather clubby, self-nurturing quality to the discourse round here, with some very familiar - inevitable - names commenting on each other's comments. It may not seem so to the regulars, but to me at least the tone of the comments area feels quite cliquey. And (pursuit of "g"? What on earth is that about?) territorial. So I'll just grab my tin hat and wait outside for a while. Perhaps I'll find g there.

Posted by Rob at June 3, 2008 11:20 AM

Rob - If you find 'g' there tell him to come back :-)

Well said and thanks for saying what you said Rob! I speak as a very regular commenter for - it seems - hundreds of years and I love and welcome diversity of opinion and the ‘difference’ that brings. This is not some sort of club as far as I see it. You and ‘g’ have fantastic things to tell us all. I’m actually quite sad that you feel the need to be in some way ‘outside.’ I would say please consider yourself ‘inside’ (thought I don’t actually believe there is an ‘inside’ and ‘outside’) and please do rattle the cage loudly my friend! You will see from the comments trail that I too slide to the corner occupied by ‘g’ - he has always made important, to the point, comments to this forum in my opinion – he sometimes disagrees with me but we sort it out directly.

Posted by Trevor Gay at June 3, 2008 12:14 PM

Rob...while all comments seem genuinely appreciated around here perhaps you have not visited frequently enough, as those who comment reguarly have differences of opinions on many subjects and express themselves differently.

Your sense of the "cluby, self-nuturing qaulity to the discouse" I diametrically oppose. Are you proposing that we all fit into a mold that you yourself have not even explained what that might be? One of hostility? Surely, you're not proposing that. This would not be good. Civility is perhaps what you are mistaking for "cluby."

I would ask of you, to just scan the comment sections of this blog. There you will find both civility and punch. "Faithful are the wounds of a friend." Thank you for your comment and perhaps we will find both you and g inside the blog soon. Where you are outside, I do not know. Best.

Posted by Judith Ellis at June 3, 2008 1:14 PM

Rob.... you are correct this site is a Chattering Cluster (cluby) it has Clans and Tribes... Trevor is a one man tribe - he leads the cheer squad for front liners, Man U, Eagles, and matters spiritual.. he is a very likable and friendly commentator here but he has very well established views and they are not going to change... "g" knows that all too well... Judith is a one woman cluster, clan, and tribe... That is the nature of Web 3.0 it is an interactive medium that is full of conversations some are in sync and some are not.... You do not like it - sometimes I do not like it... So what? Who cares live with it... or do something positive about changing it! I did not know that there was a corner marked for "g"... indeed I thought he had taken his bat and ball and gone home once he found he could not dominate this forum... but hey that it just my opinion Rob ... you have your say and I have mine, Judith has hers, and my good friend Trevor has his... I think "g" has his own site now so I assume that is where you will find him... good luck to you... Richard.

Posted by Richard Lipscombe at June 3, 2008 5:22 PM

Crikey!! - I've been called many things in my life but never before described as a 'tribe!’' – I’ll take it as a compliment so thanks Richard. I would request 1 minor correction though. Although I have a very ‘fixed view’ about Manchester United being the best football team in the world - on other things I like to think of myself as flexible and open to persuasion as anyone else who ever contributes to this Blog …. But only where I can see benefit. I have lost count of the number of times on this Blog I have said I was wrong!

Posted by Trevor Gay at June 3, 2008 5:40 PM

Trevor..... It is meant to be a compliment but it is also how I see you my friend... you come with passion and with a purpose... you want simplicity and social justice for people in general and for front liners in organisations... Tribes form around people like you... Tribes are usually full to the brim with people like you Trevor - people, sometimes leaders, who are focussed in tight on their ideologies and pursue them down every highway and byway... Web 3.0 Tribes are akin to what Pastor Rick Warren calls purpose-driven groups... Pastor Rick with his wife Kay built the Saddleback Community Church from scratch into its current form with its 20,000 active members. They did it by embracing the concept of what I call Tribes but Rick calls purpose-driven groups... If you visit his Church (you should do that Trevor one day I think it will rock your socks off to see the sheer scale of it all) you will find people like the woman who Tom mentioned to kick off this discussion... People like that lady are in that Church in their thousands, day in day out, meeting at the Church and in their homes to constantly pursue their purpose... Like you they too want to learn more about their world and how they can help the people they see as needy... They do it all in the pursuit of their faith, their calling, their sense of social justice, and their determination to get good things done or achieved in their community and the broader world.... Take care Trevor - you are a Tribe in my eyes.... Richard

Posted by Richard Lipscombe at June 3, 2008 6:05 PM

Richard...brilliant response to Rob. I'm hopeful that both g and Rob will re-join this most wonderful forum that bears the name and spirit of an extraordinary man. Best...

Posted by Judith Ellis at June 3, 2008 7:56 PM

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Thank you Trevor, Judith and Richard for your comments. You have been thoughtful, and I will be thoughtful in return. I will be back often to Tom's blog, because it gives me an essential intellectual espresso, but to be honest my reservations about the Comments remain. It may seem graceless and unfriendly to say so but... The Comments forum feels "occupied" by a relatively small number of like-minded frequent contributors, who appear quite proprietorial about it and Tom, and exhibit white-cell behaviour towards what they regard as hostile intrusions. It often feels less like a debate on the topic of the original blog, and more like a mutual reinforcement of a shared viewpoint. I'm not sure what "g" was doing to try and "dominate" the forum, but the very language here speaks to me of guardianship and protection, and a significant presumption of both rules and roles in the forum. That's dominating as well. My point is that either Comments is a very broad church (words chosen advisedly) or it is in danger of becoming a sect, with all the selective and prescriptive mindset and behaviour that implies. At present this forum may bear Tom's name, but I would strongly question whether it bears his spirit.

However, this is just my perspective, and plainly not yours. It's a free country, so to speak, and this is one of the demotic outcomes of Web 2.0.

PS Perhaps Tom himself would like to comment on what is the Spirit of Tom.

Posted by Rob at June 7, 2008 3:31 AM

Hi Rob - your comments are brilliant – thanks. As I have said many times - I love diversity and the more opinions the better as far as I’m concerned. I am a ‘visitor’ to this Blog and I have no more importance than you or anyone else making comments. I assure you most sincerely Rob I don’t consider myself as part of any ‘sect’ when I comment here. I am commenting for Trevor Gay and no one else. Some comments I agree with, some I don’t but all comments have equal validity in my eyes. I don’t know what you mean by ‘white cell behaviour’ but I hope I have never exhibited anything other than civility and respect to all commenters whether I agree or disagree. Hostility is just not in my nature Rob I assure you. The fact you perceive this forum as a bit of a narrow closed shop is vitally important to know and very relevant because it sort of suggests to me that other people may also see it that way and that I am sure is not the spirit of this forum. I love contributing and meeting people through this Blog – including you – perhaps even more so people like you because you make me stop and think. g is another who I think brings fantastic insight to this Blog and I wish he and you contributed more.

Posted by Trevor Gay at June 7, 2008 2:44 PM

Rob...thank you. I wish that I could say that hostility is not a part of me. Good on you, Trevor. I am afraid, however, that there are many not so pleasant things that are a part of me. Which dominates is key. I hope that civility reigns, though at times it does not.

As I read your thoughts, this came to me: one thing that is for sure, one cannot argue with the feelings of another. Feelings are so subjective. I would still ask you, Rob, if you have not done so, to check the comments throughtout this Blog and perhaps you will feel somewhat differently. But, as I said, to debate feelings is useless. Yours, however, are those that I do not share.

Regarding the spirit of Tom, my point was simply that it is one of excellence and brilliance that propels us to acheive greater results in word and deed. He propels me to action as I'm sure he does for so many others. I am sorry if it appears that I am not challenging of one who, to me, has contributed so much to the professional even personal development of so many through reading his books and seminars. He has had a profound influence on me. May I please express this sentiment free of judgement?

Personally, I am not here to challenge TP's thoughts. In fact, there have not been any that I have read here or in his books that I could even object to. (Is this OK? Are my words that objectionable? Sorry!) Perhaps, I'm just simply not that good as others here who have such challenges. I have, however, been known on this Blog to disagree with others.

If there are things that I am unsure of, you can bet that I will seek understanding. But I am not here to challenge one of the greatest business thinker ever. This I cannot do. I will leave this to you. I am sincerely trying to remember comments that you have written here. (My bad!) Could you add to the discussion more? Perhaps your thoughts will spur those commenting in a different direction. "Be the change you wish to see..." but it may or may not be possible to change me. I am, however, forever willing to change. All the Best...

Posted by Judith Ellis at June 7, 2008 8:19 PM

Great post. It sounds like "Mary" geniunely cared about people. She was the breath of fresh air that we inherently desire to fill our souls with. Unlike, our natural tendency to ease into things and people that can pull us down, the Mary's of the world attract us because they make us feel good about ourselves. Too many business organizations are customer-centric for the sake of the sale. Mary's of the world authentically care. They are life's angels.

What if businesses got that?

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Posted by Mark Slatin at June 28, 2008 7:10 PM