Comments

Thank you so much, erik. Happy 4th!

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 4, 2008 9:51 AM

From my part of the UK, "Happy birthday, USA" and at the same time, let's spare a thought for all those who still have to struggle every day for Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Posted by Mark JF at July 4, 2008 10:18 AM

Let's have a little mischief...

Celebration? Maybe that'd have been more apt had that 'so important document' still been a vital & valid part of everyday life.

But, as many seem to have willingly turned their back on it, perhaps a little 'genuinely remembering - of a source from which to go forward' is in order.

And, maybe a 'declaration of interdependence' would be a good agenda-header for a country that's shifted from being among the most respected (loved?) to ridiculed (hated?).

Hank M would clearly have something to say:
====
I have never been able to look upon America as young and vital but rather as prematurely old, as a fruit which rotted before it had a chance to ripen.

I see America spreading disaster. I see America as a black curse upon the world. I see a long night settling in and that mushroom which has poisoned the world withering at the roots.

It isn't the oceans which cut us off from the world - it's the American way of looking at things.
=====

Personally, I'm with Steinbeck's 'Try to understand men, if you understand each other you will be kind to each other. Knowing a man well never leads to hate and nearly always leads to love.'

Posted by g at July 4, 2008 10:33 AM

The 4th of July celebrates our determination, our resilience, our diversity -- the beauty of our various paths from the Mayflower to darken ships with bound bodies below to erected homes of hearth where independence already rode free.

The 4th of July celebrates our history, our present, our future. In spite of difficult seasons, in spite of uncertainties, remember our glorious, heart-wrenching blood-stained path of tears and...yes...BE HAPPY!

Many have survived and died for our independence from tyranny abroad and within. Our honor of the past remains reverential. Our will for becoming yet better remains resolute. Our love and respect for each other increasingly grows. Our future is very bright! BE HAPPY!

Happy 4th of July! What a great country we have! What a great people we are! May God forever bless the United States of America.

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 4, 2008 10:48 AM

In response to 'it's the American way of looking at things' we quickly get:
>What a great country we have! What a great people we are! May God forever bless the United States of America.

Damn that was fast. QED Such fun.

And there we are... 'Americanism' on chest-beating display...

It's been suggested that evil carries within itself the seeds of its own destruction. Fortunately, so does stupidity - although sometimes not speedily enough in the instance of a country wholly in love with the ideal of itself and no shortage of 'yes, master' disciples.

Posted by g at July 4, 2008 11:04 AM

g...Go find a life and happiness; you are obviously in need of both. And, you might also check your ego and humility level. It's not about you. What you will find is that my comment was not in response to yours at all. It was taken from a piece I wrote earlier on my blog. Go piss rain on your own parade. We are enjoying ours!

Happy Independence Day, America!

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 4, 2008 11:43 AM

It is possible to be happy and
still see the world as it really is.

Posted by zed at July 4, 2008 11:49 AM

g - full of mischief is the right way to put it. I don't see the 4th of July as a chest beating celebration. And to equate the policies of some presidents with an "American way of looking at things" misses the point (perhaps deliberately?).

Please remember the circumstances of the Declaration and the ideas behind it. As you can easily read in the link, it is a document of hope. Realize that no democracy (of any stripe) existed prior to this, only in the minds of philosophers - not in the real world. This document begins the worldwide struggle for people to be freed from capricious, insane, or stupid monarchs; to participate in the creation, continuation, and reconstruction of their own (and each other's) lives.

There is no "American way of looking at things" in this document. Hardly anyone alive at that time understood what it would be to be freed from the British crown. They also had no idea what would come of it. But they did understand the problem at hand (all those charges against the king!). They did understand that even if they screwed it all up and they all died, it was worth the attempt.

Now I am all for real discussion of the merits of this document, of the institutions created in the U.S. some years later, or any other issue. But so far, I am not seeing it. I am seeing strangely insulting rhetoric - the fool dancing along trying to bait someone by mockery.

Now you may say that "we" Americans take all this too seriously and we should lighten up. - Touche - I think. Many of us look to this document as a document of hope - a document that may be able to help us remember what we should stand for and the obligation to continue an unfinished job (we certainly can't claim to treat everyone equally yet - but we have gotten better, much better, over the years). In this way, some may be driven to feel ashamed or resolved to bring us back on track - or even to toss it all and move elsewhere.

Through it all, however, I think the point is this: we must be allowed as a people to make our own mistakes - ones we own, about issues we care about. We should be able to be stupid ourselves (as opposed to being subject to someone else's stupidity). And above all, allow us all to discuss our stupidity so that at some point perhaps we can be less stupid. That we make mistakes does not count against it - how else do we learn judgment?

To come clean - before anyone thinks this is some knee-jerk reaction from some cotton-headed American patriot who wears red-white-and-blue boxers - I am not an American citizen (yet! - applications take a long time to process). I was born in the Netherlands and have also lived in Ireland.

So my question for you, g, is this: excepting all the anti-American rhetoric and bulls**t, what in the Declaration of Independence do you take issue with?

Posted by Martin Koning-Bastiaan at July 4, 2008 12:05 PM

Bravo, Martin. "Red-white-and-blue boxers" or bikinis would be fine too. I'm off for a dip!

Best of luck with the process. You seem like a fine man, one that we would welcome.

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 4, 2008 12:25 PM

Zed...You are most certainly right. But it is not a matter of not seeing what is; it is a matter of choosing to see what is through freedoms granted, while forever believing that we can yet be better. We have an eternal hope for a "more perfect union." There is a reason why so many come to our borders into "the land of the free and the home of the brave."

God Bless America!

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 4, 2008 12:35 PM

Judith - I have lived in the US for over thirty years - I have felt welcome (for the most part). But my kids keep wondering why they are US citizens and I am not. Telling them that they can be Dutch citizens also does not halt the questions.

Gotta admit - I am wearing a patriotic shirt today (but a couple weeks ago it was all Orange! -Trevor will get that reference, if no one else does!)

There are good and less good people everywhere you go - being thoughtful or less-thoughtful about what they do. In a country, just as in a business, you have to leave room for the thoughts to unfold.

If nothing else, America stands for that - and especially the Declaration. However badly we have lived up to the ideals, there they remain - reminding us that we have work to do.

Posted by Martin Koning-Bastiaan at July 4, 2008 12:39 PM

Freedom just another word for nothing left to loose.

I'll be ready to celebrate next 4th of July
if our President's name is Obama.

Then I won't need to look to the past to feel good about America.

Posted by zed at July 4, 2008 2:39 PM

Martin – I do ‘get’ the ‘Orange shirt’ reference and bad luck to you – I was hoping Holland would win the Euros. But at least your country REACHED the finals which is more than can be said for my beloved England national team – I am still recovering from that disappointment! :- )

Congrats to all US citizens on this your special day. I love the optimism and positive outlook of the folks I communicate with regularly from the US. I love the ‘up-frontness’ and the ‘in yer face’ attitude. As we say over here – ‘I’ll have pint of whatever you lot are on’

Martin is of course right – there are good and bad people everywhere you go. I am very proud that my country welcomes people from all cultures, all nations and all faiths. I am VERY proud that London is probably the most cosmopolitan Capital City on the planet. As far as I can see we enrich our country by welcoming those who happen to have been born in other countries. We in Britain have much to learn from non-Brits. The influence of those born overseas will always be welcome as far as I’m concerned. I say, the more the merrier – there is plenty of room here and all are welcome! That is not to say I am not proud of being British. Anyone who reads my comments will know that being British is the thing I am most proud of …. But I am honest enough to recognise we Brits can sometimes (often) be a little (maybe more than a little) arrogant.

It’s not about the place you are born it’s about your mindset.

Happy 4th July !!!

Posted by Trevor Gay at July 4, 2008 3:24 PM

I'm with zed on his choice for the presidency. President Barack Obama. What a nice ring. But if it is, by chance, the other (I dare not say his name), I will continue to celebrate our country, knowing full well its past, its present, and its glorious future.

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 4, 2008 3:30 PM

Ughh! The preaching, the admonishment! Go for a dip! The water's fine...at least where I am.

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 4, 2008 3:39 PM

zed...the freedom of which I spoke was the freedoms in the Constitution. You know the ones: the freedom of the press, the right to petition and assemble, the right to execrise religion, etc.

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 4, 2008 3:51 PM

Why wouldn't you celebrate the founding of the best Nation-State in the world? America has brought a set of nation-building aspirations to the world that is simply unmatched and unlikely to be matched any time soon.... America is based on the pursuit of happiness for each and every individual... I am a proud Australian yet I never feel as fulfilled as when I am in America - it is the home of the free, the individual, and of raw idealism.. What I celebrate on this 4th July is the existence of America as the greatest 'open society' on earth... It is leading the way with its transparency... It is leading the way with its call for equity for individuals around the world.... It is leading the way with its innate sense of accountability as a Superpower....

Every genius is flawed and so too is America and yet it is still the most inspiring Nation-State on our planet... I trust all Americans can go forward with their next President (Obama or Mc Cain) to build upon the great legacy of the founding fathers of the United States of America... Happy Birthday and stay passionate, resilient, and strong America - the whole world needs you to be so...

Posted by Richard Lipscombe at July 4, 2008 7:08 PM

Richard...What a beautiful comment. Thank you.

As you know, I lived in Australia for almost a year and found it to be one of the most beautiful on the planet. I loved the people. I loved their rugged frontier-like way of being and their delicate appreciation for beauty. Syndey is a gorgeous bustling metropolis. I loved Melbourne too! Mount Isa as well!

President Barack Obama! Change we can believe in! Oh, yeah!

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 4, 2008 7:42 PM

There is profound wisdom which come from the founding father of the US. It is a great gesture on your part Tom.

Posted by Steve at July 4, 2008 8:34 PM

And now, to answer the question from Martin K-B...

>g - full of mischief is the right way to put it. I don't see the 4th of July as a chest beating celebration. And to equate the policies of some presidents with an "American way of looking at things" misses the point (perhaps deliberately?).

Did I mention 'presidents'?
And the 'way of looking' remark is a direct quote - from an American.

>So my question for you, g, is this: excepting all the anti-American rhetoric and bulls**t, what in the Declaration of Independence do you take issue with?

Absolutely nothing - of itself, it is very, very good. And therein lies the root of the issue, as already stated... that it is not 'a vital & valid part of everyday life'. Instead, it's trotted-out when convenient for a feel-goodery back-slap-all-round...

Fact is, when assessed objectively--comparative analysis of social progress markers like health, education, technology, economic, 'morality', etcetera--'America' ain't that big a deal any more. Perhaps critically, internally there's growing despair at 'a new low' and many physically or mentally shrug their shoulders about what to do.

If Tom Paine was genuinely on-the-money with 'I believe in the equality of man; and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow-creatures happy.' then you flag-wavers maybe ought to consider changing 'God bless America' to 'May God have mercy on America.'... as it's becoming increasingly unlikely that in the new world order no one else will.

Vanity and arrogance on proud display, I personally know of no nation so fearful and insecure.

'The Great American Dream'? Wake up, USA!

And now, we return you to 'The Judith Ellis Show'...

Posted by g at July 5, 2008 12:50 AM

g...For someone as spineless, who does not have the balls to write out his given name (surely you are not a woman) in the world of political opinion or business, it is probably useless to even respond to your comments. But I shall, nonetheless.

Regarding my show, you may proudly leave seething irrate, embittered, envious comments on my blog where I will gladly respond in kind. I still need to respond to your "yes, master" bit. Better yet, you have my email, pop me one. Believe me, I'll respond in kind. But then again, I may not. As they say, there are as many opinions as there are a**holes; everyone's got one. By the way, this is Tom Peter's forum, in which I am most happy to participate--not mine.

You do love the attention, don't you, g? Hence, your Freudian reference to my show. Did you mean your show? Did I perhaps steal your thunder? There was a time here where you even whinned about not returning to this blog after your quips or tyrannical tirades were not acknowledged in the way you deemed worthy of you. As we all see you have returned with, we've noticed, progressively longer emails--those same ones that you whinned about others having. Oh...g...you are indeed in need of something that I hope you will soon get.

The 4th of July parades around America are officially over (the pomp and circumstance, that is) and I see that you continue your attempt at pissing rain on our national parade. You are not the first pisser or basher and you will not be the last. There is always an element of this where strength is present, where power is perceived, and where goodness reigns.

With all of our shortcomings, we remain a great compassionate people that have brought/brings technology and industry to other places in the world, where people clamor to its border from every continent of the world. Our delight is to deal with internal issues internally and not be concerned about the likes of you, a mere rabble rouser. I trust that you are making a different in your country, whereever that might be, though I doubt it. Pontification often does not necessarily lead to action.

While your words may evoke a response, they do not speak to a lesser people, but a great resilient people who do good works by the billions all over the world. At this very moment, I am remembering some very wise words about not answering a fool according to his folly and I shall as of now, not answer you when you merely seek to stir the pot or spew what can be taken as "anti-American rhetoric and bulls**t," as Martin noted. I do, however, wish you peace.

May God forever bless the United States of America, "the land of the free and the home of the brave."

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 5, 2008 4:31 AM

Barring a tsunami across the Pond, it looks like there will be another American Wimbledon champion. The Williams/Williams tennis match, starting now, promises to be a winner for the good ole USA. Do I hear John Philip Sousa's triumphant march, "Stars and Stripes Forever?"

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 5, 2008 8:36 AM

The irony of all this fails to escape me. This blog/ Tom Peters work is about enabling management practices in the workplace that encourage innovation, thoughtfulness, caring, and attention in the workplace. The questions asked (in this regard) help people understand (for instance) how loosening up management practices do not necessarily result in the company flopping over and not producing.

Enter this thread - which has transformed, most poisonously, into crass generalizations and ad hominem attacks. Have we not learned anything?

Taken without the rhetoric and generalizations (whether your or not, g), your concern may have some merit - but it is doubtful that this is the right forum.

Posted by Martin Koning-Bastiaan at July 5, 2008 11:40 AM

What I have learned is that when one directly attacks another be prepared for a direct counter-attack. We're all grown up here. What I have also learned is that if one is offended by an attack directed their way or not, an apology is also in order. So, while my love for country remains great, and even though I felt duly attacked and dishonored on a day which honors our great history and legacy, including the loss of life, sweat, pain and tears of so many, I apologize if my response was offensive to anyone. Being offensive is never my ultimate goal, though I sometimes feel that it is unavoidable.

Regarding the forum, I think it is just fine, freedom of expression is important so as long as there are no objections from those running this site. (I also want to honor them, especially the man whose name bears this site.) In fact, the tone here may not have been most desirable, especially for Cathy. Though, I personally would rather have open discussions than cloaks and daggers. "Open rebuke is better than secret love." But if at any time my tone or words need adjusting, I will most certainly make the adjustment...immediately. Again...please allow me to express my apologies to any whom I may have offended.

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 5, 2008 12:43 PM

Aw, we just need a group hug.

This weekend I've been imagining a Declaration of Independence for front line employees. In the words of Ricardo Semler, “Why do organizations and their leaders cling to a rigid form of command & control that is at odds with the values of personal freedom that they cherish?”

Posted by John O'Leary at July 5, 2008 7:42 PM

Love it! - That'll do for me John – How I wish all business schools had the brilliant Mr Semler write their curriculum ... I love your comparison with the Declaration of Independence … Any manager who thinks they ‘manage’ front liners just doesn't get it … I've never ‘managed’ anyone in my entire career … People ‘manage’ themselves .. Effective managers merely create the environment to allow people to manage themselves … It is the height of pretentiousness and patronising to believe one can 'manage' another human being. I worry about managers who talk about ‘my’ staff. ‘My’ implies 'ownership' and sadly some managers act that way ... 'Us' ‘Our’ and ‘We’ are much more appropriate words. Happy Sunday - best day of the week!

Posted by Trevor Gay at July 6, 2008 1:44 AM

Interesting to note that I'm critiqued for antic-American rhetoric, when much of my piece is simply a cut-and-paste of stuff from educated & informed Americans. Or statistics which aren't in question. No matter.

Clearly, those who dare criticise America do so 'from jealousy, envy, one-dimensional thinking, stupidity, ignorance etcetera'. And it's not of course through the standing-back observation & perspective - the considering of what America was supposed to be like compared to what it's become. No, of course not. Critics are just jealous idiots.

Elsewhere, in less ebullient tone, other Americans - who haven't been drinking their own KoolAid - are writing stuff like:

How well can you take criticism? Evidence suggests that Americans may be handicapped when it comes to dealing with critical feedback. Most of us see evidence of this social trend every day, for example: 'This guy is crazy. Can you believe how many points he counted off for that?' This stems from our tendency to shift blame away from ourselves.

And... Our popular culture is obsessed with winning, public adoration, entertainment and membership in some elite. These expectations are built on a default setting of absolute security; we should all have ample resources-- food, energy & water, housing, employment, paid vacations, healthcare and pensions, too simply for being born in the US.

With all these securities guaranteed, we are then free to pursue our dream to be on stage and win the hearts of people everywhere, etcetera. But a funny thing happened on the way to our winning performance on American Idol: all the security we assumed was our birthright has turned to sand.

And... ...semi-nasty super-spoiled children who really believe they're superior beings who shouldn't have to work too hard and who really don't take criticism well (because they've never received any in their sheltered little lives, and it just totally knocks them on their ass).

And... Perhaps if we pull the wool away from our eyes we'll see that we've been deluded by fear and guilt and come to our senses...

And... Our sports-obsessed culture where winning is about destroying ones enemy...

How's about contrasting these views, again both from other sources:

1 America the beautiful. We are the best. We are the strongest. We kick ass. We are the richest. We are the free-est. We want to spread democracy to the world. We contribute to charity more than anybody else. We live better. We live longer. We have the best medicine. We have the biggest army. We have the most nuclear bombs. God bless America.

2 Yes, you have the biggest army and nuclear bombs. You do not adhere to treaties (Kyoto). You criticize the Geneva Convention when it suits you. You ban torture when it suits you. You do not have universal Healthcare. You are #13 in the World for longevity with a 5 year gap from the leader, and even behind Greece. You are among the top of the Western World for infant mortality. You have the highest imprisoned population of the Western World and you have the death penalty - the only western country to do so.

Personally, I'd add something about following-up on Clinton's remark of 'It's long past time to make good on our debt to the United Nations'. But, of course, that'd upset someone.

So then, is 'Dumbed-down nicely, thank you: why America feels good about itself whilst more of our children can't read, write or add (and their parents can't afford healthcare and mortgage payments)' really the order of the day?

On the plus side... many folk are aware of the problems, don't like it but feel helpless to change things. On the issue of a government sooooo out of control, I genuinely hope Vidal's (paraphrased) observation of 'as if one man, having become beholden to the corporate interests which funded his 'sweepstake' ticket, can actually effect real change' is not the case. Although it's likely that even if he's not so-restricted, other representative more 'affiliated' with those same interests remain a real chicane on the road to progress.

Whatever. I really must go now... I hear my life calling me.

Toodle-pip.

Posted by g at July 6, 2008 2:12 AM

g...I appreciate your comments. Many of them are not very far from the thoughts of millions of Americans. But the fact that you are so aware of them, hailing from Britian, points to the fact that America has been in an enviable position, rightly or wrongly, and that our body politic, culture, music, sport, etc. rock or at the very least scream that others have taken notice worldwide. I, for example, do not know much about British people (Simon Cowell of American Idol is British, yes?), politics or culture, save the great contributions of your literary figures and a war hero or two hailing from centuries and decades ago. Do, pardon me, I concede that this may be arrogance and ignorance on my part. But I am willing to learn.

You are a bright fellow. And, you have done well to make veiled comparisons. But it is very easy to take large issues and rant about what a great country is not doing so well from afar. It is also easy to make comparisions from one country to another that is not comprabable in size or scope, though we desire healthcare for all, a better education system for all etc. When I lived in Europe, by the way, there were a great many very educated people but there were no jobs and no land to spread one's wings. I have lived on many continents, but I have not as of yet visited Britian. Maybe one day.

Although, you have not duly made such comparisons country to country, the coloring of your observations are, nonetheless, taken from outside, though you have used inside voices to paint a dismal picture. OK. Criticism, we don't mind. But to what end have you done so? Are you merely pointing out internal problems? For the good of whom? For the displeasure of whom? Perhaps, this was Martin's earlier point about the forum. Nonetheless, as I have not the need, as of yet, nor the particular interest, as of yet, to understand the body politic, culture, sport etc. of Britian, can you briefly add your brilliance to the internal problems of that great past Empire where the sun once never set?

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 6, 2008 8:16 AM

g: there's an interesting dynamic about the American psyche that has us be more sensitive to criticism from abroad even when the same criticism is tolerated "in house." (And woe to any AMERICANS who criticize her from foreign shores. One of my favorite American bands, the Dixie Chicks, had to endure death threats and boycotts when their lead singer expressed shame for the conduct of our President.) Also, timing is everything. Your point 2 above is especially well taken on all counts, in my humble opinion. In fact, you may be going easy on us. But perhaps this weekend is a time for us 'mericans to celebrate our vision and purpose - which is pretty cool, don't you think? - and our extraordinary good fortune to have intellectual giants like Adams, Jefferson, Hamilton, Madison, etc. (Brits of course) as our philosophical architects. But AFTER this weekend we will engage in a four-month process to evaluate our progress in fulfilling our purpose - a process we call a presidential campaign. Hopefully, we'll show better judgment this November than we have in recent years. Every organization, institution, society has its "lost years," and, to be sure, we've been thrashing and stumbling in the wilderness for a while now. But don’t give up on us yet.

As I’m writing this, on classic rock radio Chuck Berry (my main man) is wailing, “I’m so glad to be living in the USA.”

Posted by John O'Leary at July 6, 2008 8:41 AM

CHUCK BERRY ROCKS!

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 6, 2008 9:01 AM

For a time, John McCain opened up his presentations with "Johnny B Goode".
Until Chuck Berry Endorsed Obama.

Posted by zed at July 6, 2008 10:48 AM

hmmmm, lots of fireworks here.

Posted by erik at July 6, 2008 12:05 PM

Happy 4th!

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 6, 2008 12:49 PM

Ellis and O'Leary. O'Leary and Ellis...anyway you go. That's the ticket! Diplomatic and open minded. Understands real change is more than a slogan. Business savvy. Who could better could understand the needs, requirements, and expectations of their citizen "customers"...those who elected them...than these two outside the Beltway "front-liners" in the day to day struggles of just plain folks? No one!

Thinking this could play!

Posted by Dave Wheeler at July 6, 2008 4:24 PM

Thanks, Dave! Nice. Definitely O'Leary and Ellis! He's most certainly the man! Oh...the things that I would learn from him!

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 6, 2008 4:34 PM

Um...thanks, Judith and Dave. But I'm still in a 12-step program to deal with my political addiction ever since my 1984 independent campaign for US President failed to unseat the incumbent Ronald Reagan - tho (and I'm not making this up) I won only one less state than Democratic nominee Walter Mondale (http://rockandrolllessons.blogspot.com/2008/02/oh-ho-ho-its-magic.html).

But whatever you run for (or from), Judith, I'll definitely support you. You definitely have the right stuff.

Posted by John O'Leary at July 6, 2008 5:42 PM

Queried on 'my point', here's the long-story-short...

1 America isn't nearly as good as Americanism proclaims.
2 Unwarranted assertions, whilst fueling zealot-belief, damage overall credibility.
3 Being so insecure - since the US got really scared of the Russians nearly 70 years ago - has seen the country move from 'defender' to 'oppressor'.
4 That harms the world, and indirectly me. Oh yeah, almost forgot - and you too.

So I speak out - in the hope that more might wake-up and try to do something about it, rather than simply bang-on about 'how great we are'.

In terms of the purpose to which this web-outlet supposedly relates...

A vital element of 'excellence' is being aware of your standard of performance - both absolute and relative - and behaving accordingly. For a long time there's been increasingly less of America that represents genuine excellence - so it's coming up short on that count.

And Americanism further demerits itself by boasting about stuff which really doesn't merit it - in so doing ignoring a tenet of the best 'leadership' - modesty.

'Fixing your problems, not messin' with stuff that ain't yours' are basic steps to genuine excellence and leadership (and regaining lost respect).

In closing... whatever the merits-and-otherwise of my presented case, consider this...

Once upon a time (likely the '50s when many of the readers here were kids with scraped-knees in short pants), the USA was more optimistic - utopian, even - about the future. Fast-forward-to-now, and why does no one speak of doubling living standards, short work-weeks and abundant leisure time? And, 'where's my bloody personal jetpack', what happened to all the technotopian gadgetry?

So is this a) improvement, or b) decline? And if b), wouldn't appropriate behavior be in order?

Posted by g at July 6, 2008 6:09 PM

oooh...g...you are much too anxious to fix our problems here, while my mere request for one of your brilliant litanies of Britian's problems go unanswered. my suggestion to you: go have a beer or two...smoke something (no...not really! or, at least, i'm not advocating such)...find religion (though religion, is never really the answer)...unwind...in a nutshell, find peace of mind...love life a little bit more...worry less--you won't be able to fix anything here...we'll take care of our problems--no worries, good ole chap...thank you, anyway...all the best...it's been real...until the next time...

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 6, 2008 8:54 PM

Thanks, John, for the vote of confidence--much appreciated.

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 6, 2008 9:14 PM

Good grief!

Posted by Rob at July 7, 2008 12:48 AM

Ahhhh.. Now I get it. The disconnect is now clear. For some reason, g, you have been equating Independence Day celebrations with a particular idea of "Americanism". I called this rhetoric before - what it is particularly is a rhetorical slide. Judith (God bless her) gamely jumps in and says, "You got a problem with that, Bubba?" and we get an artificially constructed dispute. Great fun! But the serious point is this:

Celebrating the 4th of July does not equate to this crass form of Americanism that g rails against.

Patriotism or love of one's country is also not the same.

Certainly none of it equates to thinking that everything is perfect here and problems are things others face. Most of your substantive points have merit, g, I'll not argue with that. However, that has nothing whatsoever to do with celebrating the 4th of July.

I think most of America is somewhat aware of the issues you bring up - Many have floundered, lacking a decent articulation of what can/should be done to fix things. Real dissent - the kind that gets people mad at each other and gets some to suggest that others should leave the country if they hate it so much - HAS been really tough - some smell a whiff of heresy or apostasy in it.

It is precisely when we see a downturn - whether economic, political, moral, or what have you - that you see the defensive turn of mind - the one that is more libel to get people to say f-off than listen. When is a country/business most likely to be stupid? When it is in trouble. But whenever you bait people on an issue they care about - the response may not be all that well considered.

But let's not lose sight of another point. Citing American dissenters - judiciously chosen, no doubt - is logically tantamount to Creationists citing dispute within the scientific community as evidence that science "ain't all that hot". The point, of course, is that the discussion has a context - and that context can be very rich. Pulling stuff out of that context can get us to lose sight of what the person was doing when he or she said/wrote that.

I suppose why I am caring to respond at this point - with Trevor, John and Judith (and of course, g's) responses having pretty much killed the horse - is that I have felt this personally. I have felt the Americanism crap that g rightly rails against and I have felt the anti-American crap that Judith smells in g's posts. When my family emigrated to the U.S. I experienced quite a bit of xenophobia and felt the bad part of Americanism. "We're the best and you're not one of us" is really hard to deal with as a child. When we moved to Ireland some years later I was seen by the Irish as American - and was so treated. There was a lot of anti-American feeling there too (that cowboy image just does not go away!). Both were unfair and rude.

My point is that I have never seen the 4th as a symbol of "Americanism". That sort of swaggering idiocy has never reared its head on the 4th for me - and as noted above - I have felt it from both sides and know what it is. Hence my confusion. Why attack the 4th? The Declaration of Independence and the ideals behind it certainly do not deserve the wrath. Have we turned our back on it in the U.S.? Perhaps. Celebrating the signing, the document, the people who put their lives into it, the ideals, is certainly a wonderful way to help us think about getting back on track to fulfilling the dreams of those wonderful people who came before us.

Posted by Martin Koning-Bastiaan at July 7, 2008 1:46 AM

Martin...Thank you for you comments. I really appreciate them. While I feel for what you are saying, and, of course, you have the freedom to express it many times again, the merits of your points have been expressed here a few times. I think John said it best with fewer words than I could have. I love John for his brilliance, fairness, honesty, artistry, philosophy...his simple way of combining all this stuff...

To one point in particular, when I have travelled and lived in other places, though not as a child, but as an American in a "foreign" land, nonetheless, I could have cared less how others perceived me...really, though my experiences have all been mostly good. I could always go back to the home that I loved so much. With its problems of racisim, sexism, and classicism, the United States remained a great country! The reality is I was not running from anything, nor searching for something better anywhere else. I was merely experiencing the beauty/life of another country and another people in another part of the world.

Americans typically, including those artistic expatriats who escaped to the likes of Paris in the early and mid 20th century, had faux paux issues with America and rarely denounced their American citizenship...in deed, in actuality. But some had some serious issues, like those who left in order to literally live or express themselves rather than be strung up in a tree. Strange Fruit...indeed. Ever hear Billie Holiday's version? Deafening. Arresting. But this too is a part of the pain and continual struggle and testament of the country that I love so much that very few leave forever for greener or better pastures. I hope this never changes.

rob...Good grief? Oh...no, my friend, Good God! (As in God is good with blessings on America!) Wanna rumble? This word "rumble" is duly taken from the musical of another great American, Leonard Bernstein. Westside Story anyone? Let's really talk about differences, similiarities, xenophobia, and human nature in general. Bernstein did it best and with such aplomb and brilliance. Maybe this is what we've missed here...a little music...and a dance step or two! And, a shout out to the memory of Jerome Robbins, a great choreograhper, another brillant American!

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 7, 2008 5:49 AM

And...Martin...God bless you too. I always like to read your comments, expressed with clarity and beauty. Thank you, sincerely.

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 7, 2008 5:54 AM

Interestingly from a Brit perspective, we have a Declaration of Independence equivalent in Magna Carta, which effectively gave the British people some checks and controls on their own (absolute) monarch including haebius corpus:

"NO Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or be disseised of his Freehold, or Liberties, or free Customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed; nor will We not pass upon him, nor condemn him, but by lawful judgment of his Peers, or by the Law of the Land. We will sell to no man, we will not deny or defer to any man either Justice or Right."

Adapting Martin's beautifully put point, I wish we Brits could celebrate the bravery of the people who instituted this and fought for it over the centuries. It's not about patriotism, it is about Liberty.

Posted by Mark JF at July 7, 2008 7:14 AM

Sorry - a bit late to the party

Happy Birthday America! Whatever the rights and wrongs of your great country (and with several visits under my belt and some good friends this Brit sees much to like) at least you celebrate the 4th! Most people in England don't really have this view of their country - mind you I can't see most Brits even understanding Magna Carta let alone reading it out!

It is indeed a true testament to the Declaration of Independence that so much of the core values, so eloquently expressed, still resonate today.

Not bad for a young, upstart nation!

Posted by PaulH at July 7, 2008 7:35 AM

All a bit too serious here for me – dunno much about all this stuff on constitutional debate I’m afraid …. BUT I do know what a fantastic Wimbledon final we had yesterday. Nadal and Federer - both true gentleman of sport. The four and a half hour final was a marvellous example of two people at the top of their game slugging it out toe to toe, punch for punch (I’m tempted to say it reminded me of g and Judith - forgive me .. that was my half hearted attempt at a joke) until the young pretender Nadal finally won through. What a fantastic tribute to all that we should admire in sport for a change …. courage, fitness, focus, skill, guts integrity, mutual respect, talent, hard work … the list goes on … so much to admire … and the Williams sisters on Saturday also showed similar dignity. No cheating, no pretentiousness just sheer brilliance and professionalism.

Have a good week all.

Posted by Trevor Gay at July 7, 2008 8:00 AM

So true, Trevor! Thrilling match between Federer and Nadal! I was rooting, however, for the Spaniard, though there is very little to dislike about Federer's game; his all too suave manner, appearing sometimes a bit cocky and at other times simply the focus needed for a great champion, is perhaps something altogether different.

While I think there is so much to admire about the Williams sisters, Serena needs to grow up a bit, and stop pouting when she loses to Venus and embrace the love and brilliance that given on display time and time again. "I take my number one role as big sis very seriously," Venus is so proud of saying. Both are superior atheletes, the older, by a mere two years, is more mature, more graceful.

Serena, I hope, will get there. I think her press conferences afterwards had much to be desired. I was quite frankly quite disappointed in her responses and sullen disposition. I agree with her mother and coach, "Serena's going to have to suck it up. She can't win everything." Great champions show grace in defeat. Saturday she did not display such greatness in the press room--a bit disappointing for such an athelete...indeed.

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 7, 2008 8:37 AM

Clarifying a point or two raised by Martin K-B about my earlier comment...

'Jingoism' remains a strong element of July 4 spirit-of-the-day. Consider Bush with the current address of: 'A nation that has done more than any other to spread the light of liberty throughout the world. Today, that light shines as brightly as it did in 1776.'

For many, the jury stepped-out and came back with a wholly differing view on 'as brightly'. And whatever the merits of that issue, it's the 'American might, better than all the rest' thing again.

Daniels, waaaaaaay back in '16, had it nailed with: 'The American youth of the future must be taught a patriotism without boasting, a love of country without chauvinism or jingoism, a reverence without a trace of brag or bluster. The day has passed when the spread-eagle orator boasted in stentorian tones that Uncle Sam could whip anything in creation. Our parents and teachers must point out that all wisdom will not die with us and that the virtues we esteem are found in every nation under every sky. Steam, electricity and wireless have made this a very small world indeed, and travel has ended the provincialism that sees only the good in one's own country.'

Fact is, for many the meaning of July 4th has been lost. It now involves far too much celebration. Perhaps the most patriotic act-of-the-day is to eschew lighting the sky with fireworks or dazzling children with a brassy parade down Main Street, and instead to celebrate the real spirit of the day... hold it as a frank invitation to consider the conditions and ideas that launched the promise of America. And an opportunity to reflect on the delivery thereof... what it's become, and a chance to move the rudder.

And part of that reflection might of course be toward 'militaryism'... the goal for which the US military fought all those years ago bears no resemblance to that which it seeks today. Why does the US have so many foreign bases in so many countries? Virtually none of the countries these bases are near threaten Americans' freedom in any serious way.

It's this issue of 'messin' with stuff that don't concern you' that pisses off so much of the rest of the world. And therein damages the credibility of a country that could be so much more use to its own citizens were it not for a dangerous obsession with all that struttin' around like Capt Invincible horse-in-my-shorts male-macho testosterone-overload bullshit behavior.

'But we can't let them go nuclear... it's too dangerous.' Any danger might be of entirely your own doing - for oppressing. And the likelihood of real danger is of course overstated - consider who's the only country to thus-far 'use the bomb'... and then twice in the same week.

Maybe Bob was wrong in 68 with: 'The [next] priority for change - the first element of a new politics for the United States - is in our policy toward the world.'

Martin King reminds us of the dangers in believing that through violence we can triumph over evil:
'The ultimate weakness of violence is that is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate... returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.'

Personally, I'm with Oscar Arias from Costa Rica... a country that abolished its army - choosing instead to spend the money on health and education: 'I suggest that you take back the best souvenir this country has to offer - the air of peace that is breathed by all, from our oldest to our youngest. Take this precious gift with you back to the United States, to Europe and Japan, and share it with your families and your governments. Tell them that you have seen with your own eyes the country with no army that so many cynics would claim is unsustainable. Perhaps one day we will see a world which no country needs army, because we are protected by our respect and concern for each other.'

But no, that's too wimpish for some.

I'm surprised no one suggested my action as 'sour grapes' on 'the overthrow of the British' all those years ago. Whatever. It's all too racy for me. So bring on a fresh starter.

Posted by g at July 7, 2008 3:43 PM

Congratulations gulliver my friend - you have raised the tone, level, and intensity of this conversation to an extent rarely experienced on Web 3.0 social networks. You have provided a true 'demonstration effect' for us all of what can be done to lift a web conversation out of the mire of mediocrity by daring to embrace the complexity of 'real life' issues. Real life has context, texture, depth, contradictions, shadows, and light - most of Web 3.0 social network conversation are truncated, simplistic, and fawning. You have complained about the simplistic nature and shallow intellectual depth of conversations here before - this time you took it on and I must say I am surprised and delighted at just how well you have succeeded. You taunted Judith to a point where you got the best out of her - you pressed her buttons and being the fighter she is she responded magnificently.... John, Martin K-B, Mark JF, etc joined in and in the process they all added insight and depth to this entertaining discussion - one of the best I have ever read on this site... It has been good because it has gone beyond the symbols and simplistic slogans that are so prevalent in all forms of our media today - this tendency to quote out of context to win applause in a conversation without beginning or end (conversations that are recycled as if on a constant loop and thus going nowhere other than where you have already been and seen) and most critically without a purpose.... The purpose in this conversation - thanks to 'g' and Judith et al - is to bear down on what you really think and hold dear to you... In today's Web 3.0 world too many people take short cuts - they quote the famous, the witty, and clever and yet add no value to those insights with their own commentary or heartfelt point of difference... From confusion springs learning - from certainty springs arrogance and more of the same... My hat goes off to you 'g' for daring to add the level of complexity needed to this conversation to force confusion and thus to raise the bar for the ensuing discussion...

This conversation reminded me of listening to Alistair Cook with his 'letter from America' broadcast. His letter was a radio broadcast set out as if he was writing to the folks back home in Britain about this amazing new world that was physically merely across the oceans and yet intellectually was often beyond belief.. Cook used his great story telling ability to recount his countless insights of a complex beast (which he clearly loved and admired) called America.....

Posted by Richard Lipscombe at July 7, 2008 5:45 PM

oooh...geez...i must admit to not even reading your latest--a mere glance sufficed...but perhaps...just maybe...you have indeed answered my request for that brilliant litany of british internals...have you forgotten?...i still have not the desire or need--as of yet--to do the research or to follow another country so closely as you obviously do...does this stuff just roll off the brain after being duly schooled or sufficiently dosed in all things American--including the good, the bad, and the ugly?...how does a cowboy all-american clint eastwood flick suit you?

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 7, 2008 6:06 PM

Richard...Are you suggesting taunting as a viable means of accomplishing things at work, home, or play? For me, taunting is not a healthy means of accomplishing much, as most would just say, F*** OFF, especially after a few rounds of more of the same where the insults grew, but the message had not been altered or raised.

Standing one's ground is not unusal or even desirable, even pit bulls do this with continuous clinched-teeth growls; they hold on tight, for dear life, until their jaws are soften by the stopping of breath. The beauty is to bring fresh thought while holding on, while their is life, especically after a few bouts of the same. To me, the praise here is not merited, though your take on your usual standpoint on Web 3.0 matters is well taken.

Tauting is not to my understanding the best way of accomplishing things anywhere, though I will always rise to the occassion, on all matters of importance to me. Also, the safety of the Web 3.0 is that it protects one from the literal knockout punch. A discussion like this in person may have raised "the tone, level and intensity" to an undesirable end. This brings to bear another thought: I wonder how successful g is with his clients?

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 7, 2008 6:42 PM

Judith ... Thanks for your comment.... If taunting will snap people out of their lethargy and mediocrity then why not use it in a workspace... Of course I had to learn to duck whenever I pushed people too far in a face-to-face conversation but that is all part of it.... How successful is 'g' in the workplace or with his clients - I think he would be very successful if he pushes people to produce their best... Excellence is never produced by wimps - is it? That is what 'g' has been trying to do with his comments here I assume but I could be wrong again... People who get real change accomplished, in my limited experience, do not pussyfoot around - they are often difficult people to deal with as they confront and stretch others around them... They do it with a clear and present purpose though as they try to get those who they work with to perform way beyond their normal levels of competency... I have never ever seen a major 'breakthrough' achieved by a truly consensual process (save the agreements I once was privileged to be a party to when some Australian Aboriginals signed up with a Canadian Mining Company to sanction some new drilling on their tribal lands - remember Aborigines have had 40,000 year of practice of consensual decision making)....

Perhaps there is an enlightened new era ahead when simply being 'nice' and forging 'consensual agreements' will work to produce the breakthroughs we need around the globe to produce excellence in most of the things we do or attempt to do - if so I look forward to it because it will bring a truly dramatic shift in the way things are conducted within my community....

Posted by Richard Lipscombe at July 7, 2008 9:40 PM

Richard...Are you serious? To taunt is to ridicule. Ridicule is never in my opinion the best way of productive change or betterment. The question returns: what is your purpose? Although as a leader it might be good, it is rarely perceived as such, even when one has achieved beyond what was expected. Ridicule hurts. It has cell memory. Also, in work environments, if employees can also taunt their employer or manager, then it might be a viable tool. But I sincerely doubt it. And, please do not confuse or conflate taunting and ridicule with tough love that pushes one to achieve when one is consistently achieving well below their level of possible attainment.

Kids are great at discerning between taunts, ridicule and tough love and so are employees. Anytime in the past where I have been taunted by an employer, coach, or vocal or dance teacher, I either withdrew completely or fired a few words back in kind. (Others will get a band of disgruntals together and make your life as "leader" a living hell! Leaders shouldn't taunt or ridicule.) Personally, I have rarely needed the kind of push that you are suggesting. And, needed or not, it is not the best way to get the best out of others: clients, students, employees, etc. And...being a wimp has very little to do with the technique one chooses to use as a leader. It's not either/or.

The term leader alone should imply a no wimp zone where excellence reigns and respect and generosity rule. If on the job as a leader I said, in street lingo "yo, mamma" to an employee who understands well the connotation of these figthing words, do you think he/she would respond in kind or suck it up? Probably the latter where grades in work environments are paramount, but will undoubtedly scheme at other ways of revenge. Where is the honesty there? Where is the teamwork?

While I generally do not pussyfoot, nor wimp about, I am forever conscious of raising others up instead of pulling them down. I am forever conscious of how my words and actions may have a lasting affect upon them. Timing is also crucial. A great quote of Maya Angelou recently quoted here by PaulH bears repeating: “I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.”

If leaders taunt and ridicule others, these same others will plot and undermine them in ways unimaginable, often rendering the project unsuccessful. Richard, I strongly disagree with the spirit of your last comment.

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 7, 2008 10:28 PM

Judith .... Perhaps we have bumped into a cultural divide here that our seemingly common language does not help us deal with.... I certainly did not intend to offend you ,... I use the word taunt as a spur... It is common practice amongst Australian males to ridicule their best mates - it is actually a sign of affection and dare I say 'love'... I use the word differently from the way you hear it... I mean to challenge people to think about what it is they believe in... I never have to demean them to do that... This is way off any topic I ever wanted to discuss here so I will leave it at that...

As I leave this conversation I want to return to my origin and only point here - I love America because it is the most 'open society' on this planet... America should be celebrated for that simple fact ....

Posted by Richard Lipscombe at July 7, 2008 10:55 PM

Richard...Offend? Not hardly! Are we back on the American theme? With your last comment, I thought we had pivoted off that theme quite well. No offense taken at all. Thanks for the cultural distinction, though the English language have derivations, context and implications can be quite different culturally. Having travelled to many places around the globe, this I understand well.

And...Richard...please do not shy away from discussions in the future; my heart is as large and warm, as it can be sharp and punishing. Though, it is the former that I seek to most cultivate, though the latter make appearances. Hey...Richard...continued success. And...all the very best. It's 12:08am and I shall now unwind and prepare for a few hours of sleep and a very busy day tomorrow. Did I say best to you? Good night. Or, for you, good morning.

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 7, 2008 11:12 PM

Teamwork - Judith mentions - and it reminds me of John's quote from Semler quite a bit above. In business teamwork is valued very highly - I daresay it is essential to a well functioning business. However, there are only a few places where teamwork is taught (to everyone's detriment). Certainly our educational systems(and with this I mean most of the Western world, with some notable exceptions) do not teach it - teamwork in education is called "cheating".

I am not surprised that many organizations take on a strict command and control structure. The model pervades our lives. In education, of course, it remains dominant, despite the work of Dewey (and others) at the beginning to mid 20th century. Dewey, like Semler, notes that we can hardly expect good democratic citizens if they spend most their lives in autocratic educational systems.

Semler puts his finger on it well - how indeed are we to exhibit the values that we profess to believe in when we spend most of our lives in institutions (edu or biz) that do not encourage (or even are antithetical to) them? And what does it say about us when we profess to believe something that our lives contradict?

Loving what you do, having ownership of the problems faced and approaches considered, these are difficult in organizations that do not respect the intelligence and abilities of its workforce.

Posted by Martin Koning-Bastiaan at July 8, 2008 11:49 AM

Martin – great comments. I continue to read annual reports that state ‘our employees are our greatest asset’ or words to that effect. And yet those same organisations persist with reserved car parking spaces for directors and senior managers. No wonder we have cynical front line staff. Thank God for Mr Semler’s view of the world. I live in hope that his leadership example will inspire the businesses that don’t operate with his philosophy, to change their own definition of walking their own talk. (particularly those who say they do … and don’t). What really surprises me is how any manager can be stupid enough to believe front liners don’t see straight through this speaking with forked tongue con trick.

Posted by Trevor Gay at July 8, 2008 2:23 PM

Thanks, Martin! I second Trevor's appreciation for your comments.

Leaders remain very important whether you call those who are employed employees or front line staff. Directors and senior managers are suppose to be leaders. If they're not for performing in this capacity for a myriad of reasons, let's see why. If the language or title prohibits proper leadership or a change in language or title will facilitate better teamwork, this can be accomplished.

What is most important, however, is mindset, especially coming from particular cultures, where there have been a tiered society that has spread unananimously across the globe, so adaptable to human nature and thus studied scrupulously and overtly and deceptively enacted. (I'm now thinking of a great past Empire, and the means of subjugating an already free people to reservations and bringing yet other free ones bound in chains. Teamwork? Have I stetched the analogy too far? What are the root reasons for some of this stuff?) Change begins first with words and then deliberate actions.

Adjusting mindsets is probably the single most difficult thing to do. Where there is no action, there is probably no change in thought. TP's slides are pure wonderful lightening rod manageable snipets on where to begin with this mindset stuff. Taken together in their eclectic artistic form, with such a leader as TP in a seminar, the leaders of the organizations, as well as the workforce, have a great platform from which to spring--not to mention TP's invaluable books. Re-imagine! is pure brilliance. It leads the mind in a multi-colored multi-faceted kaleidoscope way as I only imagine his seminars do. Gotta get to one!

Perhaps we have failed to deliberately change our actions for a great many reasons, real or perceived, where TP has presented or not. But an all out assault against directors and management will not solve anything until officers, board members, shareholders, etc., understand the value and need for change. How are their bottom-lines affected by policies that do not value teamwork? How do they affect sales and the public in general? Is there a direct correlation?

The above questions I'm sure have all been asked a thousand times before. There is undoubtedly no novelty there. But I do wonder, however, if they have been asked in ways that leaders (all of those above, including directors and managers) understand as opposed to ways that often consultants and the like wish to be understood? Our approach to those in authority, yes, I said authority, also known as leadership, still needs to be considered.

Does anarachy, or the mere sense of its overthrow approach, really solve anything--definitely not in record time, maybe not ever.

Trevor...as I wrote I could hear your simplistic refrain, "dunno much about all this stuff." Yet, I continued anyway. I don't think I have spoken in language that is over the top. But, if I have in any way said anything of interest that need explaining, I will be most delighted to oblige. I think I'm good, though.

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 8, 2008 3:52 PM

Judith, yes, I understand what your words mean. Just for the record, my comment "dunno much about all this stuff" was merely an honest and genuine statement about my own lack of knowledge of constitutional affairs – It never has turned me on …. And never will I’m afraid – It’s like watching paint dry as far as I'm concerned.

As regards ‘leaders’ I am more inspired by actions than words. If directors and senior managers earn more money than front liners then I say there must be added (and publicly DEMONSTRABLE) value from their contribution. Reserved car parking spaces (and their ilk) are not evidence of added value - they are merely outdated status symbols maintaining the illusion that these alleged 'more senior people' earn extra ‘goodies’ – it is really Victorian Britain if you want my honest opinion. In other words about 130 years out of date!

My brain will not allow me to understand why ‘senior’ people don’t have to publicly justify WHY they earn more money than other people in the same organisation just as front liners are asked to justify why they ask for more money. In a ‘Semler like’ organisational structure there is total transparency and openness about all this stuff and I don’t accept it can’t be like that as a rule rather than as an exception – especially if public statements are made about ‘valuing employees.’

Sorry once again to try and make it seem simplistic ….. But you do know me well by now Judith :-)

Posted by Trevor Gay at July 8, 2008 5:28 PM

The operative word in "seem simplistic" is, of course, "seem." Continued best, Trevor.

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 8, 2008 6:04 PM

Re-imagine! is simply beautiful! Re-imagining seems to require words (rants) and pictures (visions.) And simplicity requires beauty. The below is taken from page 147:

! Rant We are not prepared...

We avoid words like 'beauty"-and the concept of beauty-between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. (Especially if we work in the likes of HR or IS or Logistics.) But as part of the urgent process of re-imagining organizations, we must embrace both the word and the concept-and make beauty the primary attribute not on of produce design but also of process design. (LOVE IT) In short, we must create an enterprise environment in which enterprise systems are no less than ... Beautiful Systems.

! Vision I imagine

A Policy Manual ... in HR or IS or Finance ... that is one page long.
A hospital's patient consent form or title insurance policy written in ... Plain English.
A plane that flies directly from someplace I'm leaving to someplace I'm going ... without going through a "hub."
A website where I can complete a transaction in 90 seconds.

How simply beautiful is that!?

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 8, 2008 6:47 PM

No argument from me Judith. Simplicity is beautiful!

So … my question is …… why do so many managers and academics still continue to pretend and magnify the complete myth that all this management stuff is complex when even a 6 year old child knows its not complex – I will probably die still arguing that point!

Needless to say I am on your (and TP’s) side as regards simplicity – it is a no brainer. I cannot see a logical, rational argument against simplicity other than from those who enjoy confusing 95% of the population.

As I have said elsewhere on many occasions - How many people do you know that go to bed praying their work tomorrow will be more complicated?

Posted by Trevor Gay at July 8, 2008 7:17 PM

The point that you will argue until the death is, in fact, a mute point in many regards, as there are so many complicated reasons stemming from embroiled internal issues beginning with how we see ourselves and how others see us. Such issues are surely not simple, to say the very least.

Simplicity is not inherently beautiful. Simplicity can be tantamount to stupidity. But beauty and simplicity require something altogether different that when we see them together we simply say both aaahh and yaaah simutaneously. this causes, this reader, at least to act.

Aaaahh and yaaah was my response after reading Re-imagine! My next thought: How can I integrate these concepts in my various businesses?

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 8, 2008 7:37 PM

Did I fail earlier to directly mention one of the greatest quotes for change ever?

“The starting point of all significant change is mindset.” --TP

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 8, 2008 10:18 PM

Returning to the American theme for the final time, I leave you with these words by Nassim Nicholas Taleb from his wonderful book, The Black Swan.

Scalability and Globalization

"Whenever you hear a snotty (and frustrated) European middlebrow presenting his sterotypes about American, he will often describe them as 'uncultured,' 'unintellectual,' and 'poor in math' because, unlike his peers, Americans are not inot equation drills and the constructions middlebrows call 'high culture' - like knowledge of Goethe's inspirational (and central) trip to Italy, or familiarity with the Deft school of painting. Yet the person making these statements is likely to be addicted to his iPod, wear blue jeans, and use Microsoft Word to jot down his 'cultural' statements on his PC, with some Google searches here and there interrupting his composition. Well, it so happens that america is currently far, far more creative than these nations of museumgoers and equation solvers. It is also far more tolerant of bottom-up tinkering and undirected trail and error. And globalization has allowed the United States to specialize in the creative aspect of things, the production of concepts and ideas, that is, that scalable part of the products, and, increasingly, by exporting jobs, separate the less scalable components and assign them to those happy to be paid by the hour. There is more money in designing a shoe than in actuality making it: Nike, Dell, and Boeing cna get paid for just thinking, organizing, and leveraging their know=how and ideas while subcontracted factories in developing countries do the grunt work and engineers in cultured and mathematical states do the noncreative technical grind. The American economy has leveraged itself heavily on the idea of generation, which explains why losing manufacturing jobs can be coupled with a rising standard of living. Clearly the drawback of a world economy where the payoff goes to ideas is higher inequality among hte idea generators together with a greater role for both opportunity and luck..."

"And that's the way it is." Thank you Walter Cronkite. "Good night and good luck." Thank you Edward R. Murrow.

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 8, 2008 11:00 PM

And of course an even greater quote about change ... 'YOU must be the change you wish to see in the world' from Mr Ghandi

I believe with a passion we can simplify management jargon, language and processes by probably 90% so that they become understandable by 90% of us ordinary folks rather than allegedly understood by the 10% who pretend to understand them.

Posted by Trevor Gay at July 9, 2008 1:02 AM

Received this very day from 'Tom Peters daily quote':

'Keep it simple! (Damn it!) No matter how "sophisticated" the product. If you can't explain it in a phrase, a page, or to your 14-year-old ... you haven't got it right yet.'

--Tom Peters

That'll do for me thanks Tom - I rest my case :-)

Posted by Trevor Gay at July 9, 2008 5:35 AM

Trevor...I agree wholeheartedly with these words "we can simplify management jargon, language and processes...so that they become understandable." There is no question about this. What's also needed is for those seeking change to understand as opposed to seeking to be understood. It's all about how we do what we do when we do it. The change you wish to be must first begin with me but accepted and understood externally. Approach is key. I understand you point above. Most would.

Just the other day after meeting with a lawyer to see if my simple two-page housing application was solid, my business partner, a brilliant engineer and inventor, stock trader, and senior executive at one of the Top 100, returned with an 18 page document that caused me to blow a gasket! (Perhaps, not the best reaction!?) To my utter dismay, he and the lawyer lengthened the document to protect our interest by 16 pages! I couldn't believe it! I don't know ONE client who would appreciate filling out such a document!

This was RIDICULOUS! What it would do is bottle up the process, one that we've been having great success. It would also waste my time and I wasn't having it. It was soon determined that my simply created document had all the stuff of the longer one. Uh...yeah! After many different kinds of businesses (failures mostly) including real estate, and dealing with people on many different levels, I thought that I had covered all the basis. Lawyers! Can't live with them and don't necessarily want to live without them. Well, maybe fewer of them.

Having said the above, I must also say that I would like to believe that my two-page document is simply beautiful not because it is two pages, but because it embodies all the necessities, is well written, and is easily understood and enacted. Simple is beautiful when these things occur. Also, in writing, no matter the document, it is always so important to know your audience. This colors much.

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 9, 2008 7:27 AM

The mere fact we celebrate it as Independence Day should say something for us. If we were the people 'g' believes we are, we would call it We Kicked England's Ass Day.

Posted by m at July 9, 2008 7:43 AM

Just couldn't resist .....

Complexity
Annual Conference 2008

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Simplicity
Annual Conference 2008

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Posted by Trevor Gay at July 9, 2008 9:08 AM

m...Here's to a wild outburst of laughter! Independence Day shall henceforth be known as W.K.E.A.D! Simple enough, Trevor?

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 9, 2008 9:11 AM

Yes, I like it, Judith, and it's simple. I think we should stick to soccer over here.

Posted by Trevor Gay at July 9, 2008 9:23 AM

I'm no historian, but wouldn't Yorktown be a better candi-date for acronym-seeking jingoists? Another day for a barbecue? And Trevor, for heaven's sake get up and dust down your trouser knees! This sort of abasement is a) embarrassing and b) a lot too much like the men in chains Jefferson wrote about. Stand proud, man.

Posted by Rob at July 9, 2008 9:48 AM

Oh, Rob, you are a proud Brit. (Are you British?) This is admirable indeed! But so is Trevor as his many comments on this blog honoring Britian shows him to be. A little tongue and cheeck deference is OK. Yes? Can't imagine anyone here, at least, seriously taking his comment above for real. But considering the fire works here of late, I guess, I understand.

Posted by Judith Ellis at July 9, 2008 10:07 AM

Honest it was meant as a joke Rob ….. I must try harder

No more ‘proud’ Brit than me. I just see no point whatsoever trying to bull***t as if it were 1808 (when we were allegedly important on the world stage) and not 2008. The world has moved on a bit though it still seems we haven’t learned that killing each other over land (or oil) is not sensible. Rob lets face it Britain is a poodle of Bush. When Bush says jump we merely ask him how high do we have to jump. And by the way the only human being I would go down on my knees to is my three year old grandson – he has he has far more common sense and intelligence than leaders and other adults who believe fighting is EVER an effective or worthwhile path to take.

Posted by Trevor Gay at July 9, 2008 11:04 AM

Don't worry Trevor, my comment was a light-hearted one. I did notice the smiley... I disagree though about your "we". It may no longer be 1808 (which in fact for most Brits wasn't all that great anyway, food riots and wage strikes were common, another war was beginning) but in 2008 we can still punch our weight. Yes our last unlamented PM did his best to turn us into a mini-me vassal state. But I reckon the real "we", the very individual people of the UK, are a bit better than its politicians. One sad legacy of Blair is complete contempt by the Government for the will of the British people, and a further erosion of the already poor constitutional protection to our rights and freedoms. But "we" still have our integrity, character and plenty to be proud of, even if collectively we seem pathologically compelled to parade our warts to the world, and then apologise for them. All the best.

Posted by Rob at July 10, 2008 1:35 AM

Thanks Rob – I did actually think your comment was tongue in cheek. Like you my ‘embarrassment’ is with British politicians and not British people. I just can’t believe how successive governments since I became old enough to vote are so out of touch with British people. Sadly our latest Prime Minister – errrr what’s his name? - is completely out of his depth as a leader and there is no one on the horizon in either party that gives me hope in terms of leadership. All male politicians look the same, wear the same clothes, speak the same language. The females are the same apart from the dress code of course. Where are the Tony Benn's, the Ken Clarke’s, the Claire Short’s and the Dennis Skinner's? - Those outspoken characters who are prepared to say it as it really is. AlI I ever seem to hear is the same defensive ‘tow the party line frightened of my own shadow clap trap’ from them all quite frankly. I think the wonderful British people are forgiving, welcoming and tolerant and I could not be more proud of my heritage. The pathetic turn out for elections is going down with every election it seems to me. When less than half the eligible voting population can even be bothered to turn out to vote (which people died to get for us) there is an important message. If ‘politics’ was a company it would be filing for bankruptcy for being completely out of touch with its customers and not listening to its front liners. Must stop otherwise I'll get reminded this is a US based Blog not a meeting of the British Support Group :-) ….... almost forgot … I’m very proud to say we Brits still of course have some ‘uniqueness’ including Fish and Chips and Roast Beef & Yorkshire Puddings!! ...They'll NEVER take that away from us!! .... Have a great day Rob and cheers

Posted by Trevor Gay at July 10, 2008 3:32 AM

Tom,

I celebrated the Fourth of July by watching the movie adaptation of the stage play "1776". Besides having wonderful musical numbers and highlighting one of the best love stories of all time (John and Abigail Adams), the play/film reminds us of something else: that the Declaration of Independence was not a deliverable, an intended result. No, having a declaration written was a stalling tactic by those favoring independence, to hold off the vote long enough for them to muster support for the proposal. Who knew that Thomas Jefferson would reach far beyond the immediate case, and generalize principles based on the Enlightenment that would apply far beyond the colonies and their issues with the British Crown.

It started as a great experiment, and continues to be an experiment. I don't know if giving individuals so much power vs. the group will work out in the long run. It may collapse upon itself -- or it may actually succeed. The long trend seems to be toward the individual as the seat of power, but the events following the attack of 9/11/2001 have caused a major retrenchment into the powers of the group (thus all the restrictions on individual liberty).

BobW

Posted by Bob Watkins at July 12, 2008 9:15 AM