Comments

Tom Peters – I love you. But I find this post quite offensive. Of course, they are human, though they differ ideologically. Some may wonder if the Wall Street bankers, along with their Western international counterparts, are human, waving red, white and blue pom-poms as guns to our heads time and time again, "socializing debt and privatizing gains." (Taleb)

I was incredibly heartened when the New York Philharmonic went to North Korea and the warmth on the thousands of North Koren faces in the audience when their national anthem was played as well as the music of the great American composer, Leonard Bernstein. They were visibily moved. In a documentary I watched the wonderful goodwill engendered by the North Koreans and Lorin Mazeel and the New York Philharmonic. This was very encouraging.

My father was in the Korean War and he loved the people there, even going back to Korea with his war buddies a few times; he had no animosity for the people of North Korea. One thing is for sure; the North Koreans no how to put on a parade. Watching the welcoming of the New York Philharmonic to North Korea was beautiful. The colors, discipline (yes, the arts require this) and dance were beautiful. Perhaps we need to really recognize our humanity instead of de-humanizing others.

Posted by Judith Ellis at March 26, 2009 9:50 AM

Tom, I have the feeling that for most ordinary people in NK it must be like living in a perpetual recession. And so I'm thinking, or rather hoping, that most of them are having to (to steal a phrase) "adapt to the untoward circumstances with a smile—even if it kills you inside". They're doing what it takes in order to survive.

Posted by RobCH at March 26, 2009 9:57 AM

"Of course, they are human"

Gawd, Judith I really blew it. What I meant was that such stuff in general is a sad, sad, sad commentary on what crawled out of the sea (you and me) and acquired the horrid taste for offing one another. (Well, I'm off base again--should mostly leave you out, Judith; it is literally 95% a disease imbedded in the male genome.)

Anyway, no aspersion on the common folk of North Korea--the aspersion was more generally on the class of beast called "human.' And I guess on our ridiculous tentency to confuse "human" and "humane." "Higher order of being"--Ha!

Posted by tom peters at March 26, 2009 10:04 AM

TP - I MUST clarify something. My last sentence was not specifically directed at you, as I do not think that this is a part of who you are from what I've read or seen on video. It is directed at all of us, generally. Please know this.

Posted by Judith Ellis at March 26, 2009 10:06 AM

Ah, Tom Peters, your response is why I love you! I also love the distinction between being "human" and "humane." This is great! I readily understood and appreciated the immediacy of being on the sea, witnessing such, and having been in war as a part of the response that followed. These things did not escape me. And, yes, I get your "Ha!" Thanks for that--smiles galore here!

Posted by Judith Ellis at March 26, 2009 10:17 AM

Tom,

Why?

It's in our nature (human) for us to destroy ourselves or someone else. Plain and simple to me.

Posted by Scott Peters at March 26, 2009 11:47 AM

Here is another why? Because people can be bought and human rights violations really don't matter that much. Let's take our recent relationship with China for instance...

What human rights violations? They are propping up our economy and keeping our banks (government) from collapsing. Our inability to manage ourselves, i.e., for us to destroy ourselves, allows us to look the other way when it comes to those who have it much worse than we do.

If our banks failed completely, and our country went into a huge Depression, we would see some behaviors very similar to other countries. We, the United States, might even have people chunking rocks on our own streets. That's why gun and ammunition sales are through the roof; through all this, many don't trust the government, or for that matter, their own neighbors.

As Metallica has sung..."Sad but True"

Posted by Scott Peters at March 26, 2009 11:57 AM

Every country in war(any kind of war) has their reason for that, but most of the reasons don't makes sense to the other ones.

Posted by Felipe lopes at March 26, 2009 12:03 PM

Thinking about the male genome there may be some good reasons why some of this is so, even though taken to the extreme in some cases. The female genome is also taken to such extremes and when the opposite is presented it appears as an anomoly. Maybe we need more anamolies in world leadership in order for humanity to become more humane.

"Every country in war(any kind of war) has their reason for that, but most of the reasons don't makes sense to the other ones."

So true, Felipe.

Posted by Judith Ellis at March 26, 2009 12:50 PM

Felipe,

To your point and providing an example

The Drug Wars occurring right now on the border of US and Mexico.

US
-Insatiable appetite for consuming drugs of all types.
-Government that wants to moralize consuption by saying everything is illegal. Create huge government to keep Americans from what they're going to do anyway. Kind of like the abstinence arguement. Almost like choosing to not sell condoms and complaining about overpopulation.
-People die in trafficing, prisons become overwhelmed, and people die at the borders.

Mexico
-Huge money for the cartels and Mexico. Our money flowing into their country creates jobs for others; albeit illegally and with huge rhetoric from the US. Build a bigger wall, keep the illegals out...what bullshit.
-They are fulfilling the demand and have an abundance of supply. Good economics as I see it.
-The cartels have shown, repeatedly, that they will die for this cause and murder others that get in the way. Huge, huge, industry.

Solution:
-Quit fighting and legalize the stuff already.
-Regulation leads to better drugs with purer ingredients. Better manufacturing, better distribution, and less knock off dangerous stuff.
-Tax to have the deficit become a surplus. Make sure the prices are competitive though, or the black market will continue and prevail.
-Deal with the cartels and Mexican government in such a way that the DEA can buy in bulk and distribute, legally, to Americans.
-Make the industry a big part of the Mexican and American economies.
-Vegas now has another reason to visit.
-Make some laws about driving/operating under the influence, but outside of that, Holland here we come.
-If you can't handle it, rehabs will make more money too which leads to greater industry. All legal!!!!

I believe the fighting and deaths are deplorable and avoidable. All for the sake of legislating morality. The US is known for legislating morality (stem cells, religious wars, drugs, etc). Give me a break!

I love the hipanic culture and Mexico. This is really hurting industry across both borders of our countries right now.

Problem solved...

(By the way, I've never done pot or coke in my life)

Posted by Scott Peters at March 26, 2009 12:56 PM

KISS - because (sadly for the people of North Korea) it's a dictatorship.

Posted by Stuart Jones at March 26, 2009 4:19 PM

cheap viagra on line mastercard KISS? I don't get it, Stuart.

Posted by Judith Ellis at March 26, 2009 7:16 PM

The American Democracy convinced its population to kill 100,000 Iraqis who did nothing wrong. This caused less outrage in the American population than the AIG bailout.

Posted by dan at March 26, 2009 11:04 PM

KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid!

Posted by Stuart Jones at March 27, 2009 1:48 AM

Yes, I understood its meaning. I was trying to determine its significance here.

Posted by Judith Ellis at March 27, 2009 7:38 AM

Tom has seen first hand what Communism has wrought - to people, commerce, the cause of freedom and self-determination.

So how did we go from Tom asking plaintively, "Why" in response to compulsed, needless, wreckless, and menacing Communist North Korean militarism to dan's bogus non sequitur about killing '100,000' Iraqis, Felipe's relativist rationalization, and Scott advocating for legalization?

Felipe, I'll bet not even what North Korea does makes sense to most North Koreans. North Korea is a failed, Stalinist state, whose sabre-rattling and nefarious troublemaking threatens all free people, whether or not we agree on Iraqi war dead and drug legalization. Not to mention the horrible toll this dictatorship exacts on its people, who have no recourse.

I think THAT's what Tom meant.

Posted by Potomac at March 27, 2009 9:52 AM

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How Potomac can dismiss or discredit Felipe's point rationally is beyond me. Many Americans believe that America has not always been justified in its decision to go to war. The Vietnam and Iraq wars have been up for debate within our own country for many years now, not to mention what others think, including the Vietnamese and Iraqis people.

Felipe's point went directly to nationalistic perception, rightly or wrongly. I think it was also astute for him to include in his comment "any kind of war." We did at one point have a war on drugs which included the slogan "just say no." Right? Let's not address the other very real issues of import and the billions made by the drug trade. Just say no!

Is he suggesting that we do a pre-emptive strike against North Korea for the sake of freedom and capitalism?

Posted by Judith Ellis at March 27, 2009 11:00 AM

Judith,

Everyone here went six ways from Sunday on Tom's original point, which basically was that North Korea is bad for the health of a free, peace-loving world.

get viagra prescription Let's leave the rest for another time and place.

Hats off to you and your blog. Cheers.

Posted by Potomac at March 27, 2009 11:41 AM

Cheers, Potomac. Thanks! Cool name--a river runs through it. :-)

Posted by Judith Ellis at March 27, 2009 11:53 AM

Potomac,

You're being somewhat wimpy...that's how dictatorships are formed in the first place. I was merely providing an example to my BFF Felipe about how wars can be very much understood on both sides of the coin. Not only that, they can be resolved, but there's way too much money involved with fighting wars. It's all about the $$$$$$$$$$$.

Sometimes, the very United States of America can be bad for the health of a free, peace-loving world. And then you cowar to the biggest dictator on the blog. Way to go Patongmacwong!

Posted by Scott Peters at March 27, 2009 4:21 PM