Comments

TP,

I dare quote your own words in response to you, as they are 100% the description of my response...

I say "If the answer is 'no,' then 'why the hell get out of bed in the morning?'"

Latter quote a la Tom Peters, Atlanta, GA, 1999, the day of "The Work Matters!" launch. A day I will not forget so long as I live, as it took my thinking into orbit and I have never wanted to splash down.

Posted by Dan Gunter at May 1, 2009 2:52 PM

Many commentors say "welcome back" when you return from a trip. I say "Welcome Back!" when you post something of this nature. That's the sort of thing that turned me on to your work almost 20 years ago. Cathedrals indeed!

Posted by Useless Sam Grant at May 1, 2009 4:01 PM

... and we should empower everyone in the organization to be a Michelangelo and leave their mark on it!

Posted by Dan Gunter at May 1, 2009 4:06 PM

Just a thought Tom - I agree with you 100% the aim for every institution must be to become a ‘Cathedral’ –what a beautiful thought. Problem is with too many hospitals in the US and UK the only connection they have with Cathedrals is … sad to say……funerals!

Posted by Trevor Gay at May 1, 2009 4:09 PM

Tom,

A (few?) years ago, you talked fairly often about Lakeland Regional down in Florida and their "care pairs" and innovative approaches to patient care. I'd be curious to know if you've followed them and if they are still pushing the innovation cart around.

Posted by Dan Gunter at May 1, 2009 4:16 PM

I DO think we need something like a religious cathedral. Perhaps we also need some of the idea of a monastry and some of a ministry. At the very least, they hold lessons for us.

Given all that has happened over the last eight months, it seems to me that we need more of the idea of building something other than ourselves, of thinking of the long term, where long term is more than one life span. The financial industry was more of a cathedral here/now rather than a cathedral that takes several generations to build. It takes generations to build yet also needs to survive the short term.

The religious connotation has its problems, but it also soars over time and has the sense of building... forever...

I once read an article of an HP person talking about working for the Vatican. He mentioned that the Vatican had a much different viewpoint of deadlines and time frames for projects than all other clients.

Posted by Stephen Garner at May 1, 2009 4:17 PM

Cathedrals of prosperity & enrichment & happiness.

Talent Code arrived for me yesterday & I talked to a psychiatrist this morning at Golds Gym about it - we choose happiness & prosperity - without the latter you may miss the enrichment of a Cathedral state of mind. :>)

Posted by C Love at May 1, 2009 4:29 PM

This is a most excellent post, TP! And, I agree with USG: "Welcome Back." Thank you so very much for posting the Drucker Tribute. I too absolutely loved Frances Hesselbein’s words. How brilliant and so very inspiring they were. I also loved the idea of proving the great Drucker wrong with regards to your "staying power" and the point you made that he did not invent management as "operating managers invented management, but that he was the first one to take a photo of management and put that photo with incredible clarity in front of us at exactly the right time." (This is not a direct quote but I think pretty close.) Fantastic!

1) It places action in the right hands—the operators
2) The photo is great imagery, as writers create images of what operators do; but they are also creators as writing is funneled through the filters of the writers. Writers create images even if it's a negative of the photo, the same likeness but shown differently. Words do this.

David Maister made an excellent point in the end of his tribute about the necessity of reading broadly. Managers "cannot only read in your own field. Business and management is a mixture of economics, psychology, politics, history and sociology. You cannot know only one of these things and hope to get by as a good manager." (This too is not a direct quote but pretty close.) Maister also spoke of Drucker's rugged intellectual and individual streak, his fresh perspectives and passion. This made me think about one of your recent Daily Quotes. (I love these.)

"We're in an age where economic value is created through intellectual capital. Though creativity. Through spunk. Through spark. Through individuality."

The bigness of Cathedrals is the awesomeness of building and creating awe-inspiring things, structures or minds. Such "awesome power of the Imagination and Spirit and native Entrepreneurial flair of diverse individuals in unleashed in passionate pursuit of...Excellence" can also be seen in the Pyramids. I love the idea that a "classroom in a primary school should…obviously…be such a Cathedral."

I love the prose and then the breakdown of its seven essences. Each can stand alone, in fact, when we consider the process of building structures or minds, although the culmination is Excellence. My mother’s sisters were all great teachers. My Aunt Dorothy, a single woman her entire life, taught and lead the Sunday School at my uncle’s church of 10,000 congregants of which 3,500 were young people. She was a writer, composer and painter and everything that she did embraced the seven essences here.

To this day I profoundly remember what she taught me from the age of five to eight before she passed, as she actually employed these seven essences and saw her role as building all 3,500 students from the primary school students to the high school students. She designed, composed and wrote for each age group. I also had Sunday tea and biscuits with her every Sunday before Sunday School. I think she thought I needed extra help. :-) She was so patient with this then rambunctious kid and I am so grateful for this. Patience may, in fact, be an eighth essence. Things rarely turn out as we expect and often in the process of building we have to change course or say something differently in order to accomplish our goals.

Thanks again, TP!

Posted by Judith Ellis at May 1, 2009 5:04 PM

Stephen - I so appreciate your words. Thank you.

Posted by Judith Ellis at May 1, 2009 5:04 PM

I remember when I worked at the Victoria and Albert Museum in London discussing with some colleagues what the essential difference was between us and the British Museum. How would we express the distinction? The prize went to the person who said: the BM is like a cathedral, we are more like a missionary society.

By "cathedral" she meant quite a lot of non-complimentary things. Investment in impressive trappings and symbolism over living the core values. Inflexibility of thought, and hostility to the smallest questioning of group ideology. Reluctance to change and to recognise change in the external world. Wealthy and remote. A pervasive spirit of rectitude and superiority. And overall, a sense that people should come (and take whatever they find because it is "good for them") rather than that there was any need to reach out to the people, let alone enquire what they might want. Excellence, in other words, strictly on our terms.

As a result, I have Doubts about cathedrals as business metaphors (sorry about that). To me their "meaning" contradicts a lot of what I would take as core TP values. They are undoubtedly things to admire, but as statements of excellence for today's business times, I suggest not. Chrysler Building, anyone?

Posted by RobCH at May 2, 2009 5:16 AM

Brilliant perspective, Rob. Thank you for that. Your words remind me of my time study of art in Florence with a friend at the Uffizzi who restored the works of great artists. I accompanied him often to the Uffizzi and to his countryside studio; from afar I watched. Not only was the art amazing to see, but the building in which they were housed were awe-inspiring. Let's not negate the importance of inspiration, even the fostering of such. I had parents, aunts, uncles and teachers who fostered in me the importance of seeing things anew, of re-creating or "re-imagining." Leaders make the difference.

Yes, we can make a mausoleum out of anything; our homes and furnishings therein can become such. (I remember going to a wealthy family friend's house as a kid and feeling such. Trappings.) But it is not only the work or building but the spirit that engenders life. This spirit is in the hands of the builders, artists, and the people who visit. It is not merely one group or another that needs to be cajoled or inspired; it is the design and desire of both, those on the inside and the outside, the corporation and the public. People matter.

I think it is a mistake to downplay the miraculous and greatness of the Cathedral because we lack spirit to make it come alive. And please let us not forget the agony that it took to build such buildings and the pain and struggle of artists like Michelangelo lying on his back for countless hours to paint divinely human images into the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel to the brick layer below without modern day cranes and the like. Is this not a model of excellence? It is we who make the difference.

By the way, I would love that Chrysler Building. The replicas in Georgia O’Keeffe paintings are awe-inspiring and inviting. Come...

Posted by Judith Ellis at May 2, 2009 9:42 AM

Here is another very important point about Cathedrals for me: Christ thought of His body as a Temple, a Cathedral. This was sacrilegious and thought of as impossible to the Scribes and Pharisees of his day, but most relevant indeed.

John 2:19-21

"Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

"Then the Jews said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple and will You raise it up in three days?

"But He was speaking of the temple of His body."

Sometimes some things need to be destroyed in order for there to be a resurrection, personally or professionally.

Posted by Judith Ellis at May 2, 2009 10:00 AM

RobCH: I agree!! It is the elusive balance, an art often achieved by gut feeling, that is critical.

PS: Why CH? Perhaps an old Roman geographical name?

Posted by Stephen Garner at May 3, 2009 9:24 AM

Stephen, very prosaic. Someone else arrived in this forum using the name Rob, which had done me proud up until then, so I added other initials to reduce confusion. Not Roman particularly, at least as far as I know. Scots and Irish, both with deep (pre-14C and 16C) roots in England.

Posted by RobCH at May 3, 2009 9:37 AM

Tom, in answer to your final question, given that I voted against Cathedral, I have to admit I don't yet have a convincing alternative to suggest. It seems to me the metaphor should express: a firm sense of purpose, flexibility of thinking, humour, humility, belief in people, irrepressibility and boldness. So far the nearest I have come is M.A.S.H - the film version. I'd vote also for Cirque du Soleil. Neither quite what you're looking for in this case, I think.

Posted by RobCH at May 3, 2009 10:10 AM

"It seems to me the metaphor should express: a firm sense of purpose, flexibility of thinking, humour, humility, belief in people, irrepressibility and boldness."

First of all, there are no shoulds when it comes to metaphors; they are as diverse as people themselves. Secondly, there are many nuisances to embrace in various metaphors. Are there any quintessential ones? There are probably more likely many varied applicable ones. Thirdly, metaphors vary depending on the point being expressed and the person expressing it.

Posted by Judith Ellis at May 3, 2009 1:18 PM

Judith, you've completely lost me, I'm afraid. We are in the world of metaphors here ("Cathedral"). Metaphors are constructs, driven by purpose. So "should" is entirely legitimate. I don't know where nuisances come in, let alone quintessential ones. And your third point exactly mirrors my own purpose - to find the right vehicle for the thought. Tom asked "Or???????" I am simply providing an alternative line of thinking of my own, as in "it seems to me". Have a go at the results by all means, but let's not get hung up on linguistic treatment.

Posted by RobCH at May 4, 2009 12:25 AM

Here, Rob, let me help you. I took your "should" to imply that corporations, for example, "should" have in it all of what you have described as the opposition to another's metaphor, thus robbing another of his construct--expressed in how TP sees the corporation. This was my point about quintessential ones. I do, however, now understand completely that you were merely expressing your opinion, offering another view, that is. OK. I totally see this. I, by the way, even agree with your points, even your metaphors, as well as that which TP offered in the post. This was, for me, the nuisance. But I thought TP's point more structural, the base, and yours as that which is built upon after the structure, the Cathedral, has been laid. Try laying a foundation or structure on the metaphors of M.A.S.H—the film version or Cirque du Soliel—slippery stuff. This is perhaps the problem with how we see so much today. While we want to be forever evolving, tearing down and building again not necessarily structures but ideologies, there still needs to be a base. Freedom, if you will, is the base, the structure, of what we have know as American capitalism, for example. Anybody with an idea can start a business and enter the marketplace. A structure, a solid foundation, is necessary. This, for me, is the Cathedral, though perhaps not in the least what TP meant by the metaphor.

Posted by Judith Ellis at May 4, 2009 2:28 AM

Hi Judith, understood. Part of why I reckon Cathedral is not quite right is exactly your final points. We don't live in stable, solid times any more. We don't live in a wholly physical (as in real-space) age any more. So the eternal spirit of place I associate with Cathedral is somehow at odds with the notion of a Disruptive Age. I know my two stabs aren't on the mark - too specific to be usable metaphors for one thing. So what about an "Orchestra" (anything from jazz band to rock group to classical, full-size to duet, so multiple cultures and goals)? Includes (or should) all the essential qualities TP lists, plus Energy.

Posted by RobCH at May 4, 2009 3:05 AM

Hey Rob - I think it is a fallacy to wholly think that during times of disruption the core of a thing is completely altered. People are the same, needs are the same things, though the means by which we achieve them vary. I might also say that the more things change the more they stay the same. Disruption is also sometimes temporary, not longstanding.

The leaders of many organizations of the 60s, including the Black Panthers, are now corporate executives, though they fought against the system at the time. The same is true for many "peace, love and happiness" types. Disruption is then a means to an end, not necessarily a game changer; the system remains. I see the same thing happening with the Internet. The same business principles will undoubtedly be applicable here, even though the medium has changed.

Your music example is a good one in that all of the genres you have given express variance, but the tonality remains the same. We are not, for example, in another tonality, although Schnoberg, with his atonality seemed to be for the most part. :-) The theory of western music, is solid, even though how it is expressed varies. The theory or structure, would be the Cathedral, and the genre more of what you have expressed above.

Posted by Judith Ellis at May 4, 2009 3:31 AM

"Includes (or should) all the essential qualities TP lists, plus Energy."

By the way, I agree. Music, irrespective of genre, includes the aspects of TP's list plus your addition, although passion embraces energy and tonality remains, the seven note scale in western music built on the moveable tonic--that is.

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Posted by Judith Ellis at May 4, 2009 3:59 AM

Good night. Or, good morning.

Posted by Judith Ellis at May 4, 2009 4:00 AM

RobCH: I think that the best way to provide for "things always changing" is to provide the people within an organization stability and some things that do not change, ie, a solid foundation from which to spring. Then, take "get the hell out of the way of change" approach to other things. The art of it all is how to do each... and what is immutable and what is not.

Posted by Stephen Garner at May 4, 2009 11:33 AM

"Immutable?" The word made me smile.

viagra buying Posted by Judith Ellis at May 4, 2009 12:02 PM

"I think that the best way to provide for "things always changing" is to provide the people within an organization stability and some things that do not change, ie, a solid foundation from which to spring. Then, take "get the hell out of the way of change" approach to other things. The art of it all is how to do each... and what is immutable and what is not."

Stephen, with no great linguistic panache, Bob Waterman and I labeled what you're talking about "loose-tight controls. ("Basic" #8, In Search of Excellence--not very many people seemed to "get it.") The W.L. Gore/Goretex founder, Bill Gore, gave us a ... metaphor!! He called it "above the water line," "below the waterline." No messin' with stuff below the waterline! ONE BIG BIG BIG BIG PROBLEM HERE:Over time, organizations tend to (mostly inadvertently) move more and more and more stuff "below the waterline"--ie not to be messed with. So one must try to manage this, and make sure that creeping calcification (below-the-waterline-creep) doesn't paralyze the organization and thwart innovation--alas, this is a nigh on impossible task, as Big Company results demonstrate day in and day out.

Posted by tom peters at May 4, 2009 1:27 PM

Stephen, spot on. My take on Cathedral is that it's almost all "below the waterline", and in TP's memorable phrase "calcified". It is the epitome of Big Company. The immutable is completely essential, but I suggest that for these days it should reside in values, purpose and leadership (everywhere).

Posted by RobCH at May 5, 2009 12:25 AM

Hmm. I'd say no. Cathedral is the wrong metaphor. For a younger generation connected to the open source movement Cathedrals is exactly what it is not about. Open source borrows the mataphor bazaar. Implies more of the grassroots, self-organizing, spontaneous and entrepreneurial movement that I believe you also stand for.

Check here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cathedral_and_the_Bazaar

//jan

Posted by Jan at May 5, 2009 2:21 AM

I think I agree with most everyone...

I wasnt so much thinking of below the waterline but fuzzily remembered another of TP's writings. He described how HP gave its employees all the tools that they might need to succeed, gave them a solid foundation, and then let them go succeed. They were able to jump high because of both the solid foundation and the freedom to jump.

I agree with the tremendous threat of calcification. It is a great balancing act of keeping things fresh but maintaining a foundation.

I have a bias for the institution to be long living with a solid foundation; yet within, it allows and fosters for the jumps of fancy that is nothing less then the next great thing.

The university model has its own threats of calification but at the same time has provided a great foundation that lasts AND that foundation supports and gives rise to great new ideas.

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Both models work and are good for different things.

I do not want my bank to be open source. I do like the idea of open source examination for bugs in its software. I do want it to be open and welcoming to many. I do want it to have its loan officers to be out and about, not at their desk.

And I do want my art fair to be open source, iconic, iconoclastic and eccentric.

And I would love the idea of a bank that provides the open space that it maintains with a long term view, space that more temporary wonderful open source events can use.

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PS: Sorry for being so late!!

Posted by Stephen Garner at May 12, 2009 10:50 AM