Comments

More like the Yastrow short attention span theatre - same drivel over and over; a never ending capitalist story of despair and remorse.

Posted by Michael at October 6, 2009 5:35 PM

An excellent comparison!
I love it when the barista at my regular Pacific Coffee starts making my Latte as soon as she sees me! Or surprises me with a free coffee on my birthday (only if I pay through my coffee card :)
Unlike Cathay Pacific where they still don't know, or don't care, about my seat or meal preferences after flying with them for over ten years!
The difference between wow and s--t.
From a big fan of everything TP!

Posted by Mush at October 6, 2009 6:10 PM

This is an excellent analogy. As customers, we seem to like being treated as if the relationship is still new and exciting, yet we also want to be treated as though there were a long-standing relationship that's worthy of special attention. But like a lot of marriages, it often seems that the courtship and honeymoon are over all too soon and things become routine. It's finding that right mix of familiarity AND keeping that spark going that takes dedication and effort.

Posted by Dan Gunter at October 6, 2009 10:20 PM

Mush - why do you think the local coffee shop can create an ongoing conversation with you and the airline can't? Is it the size of the companies? Is it a mindset?

Dan - I asked participants in a workshop, earlier today, to describe an ongoing conversation. One person said, "evolving." Do you think that constantly evolving is a key to keeping that "spark" going?

Posted by Steve Yastrow at October 6, 2009 10:42 PM

In certain circumstances, "first dates" can even be dangerous.

Consider the time when my wife had to undergo a procedure. I personally informed everyone that she is allergic to ibrufen. I insisted that they write it down, note it in their software, etc.(Thanks, Tom!) Imagine my surprise when we received a prescription for ibrufen, on discharge.

This happened in one of the best hospitals in my country.

Jay, Bangalore

Posted by Jayakumar hariharan at October 7, 2009 5:26 AM

Steve - "evolving" is most certainly a key. People are always (naturally) experiencing new things. Where relationships are concerned (be they business, personal, or otherwise) conversation is communication. Communication is one of the key ways we learn and it's the crucial element in relationships.

Scientists realized a basic principle long ago, which is the fact that an experimenter can not avoid somehow affecting the subjects he is observing. Likewise, two people engaged in conversation, business, etc. affect one another in various ways -- sometimes minute, sometimes very large. Whether or not that "spark" continues to exist is a function of how each chooses to act and react within the realm of the relationship.

If you look at it another way, the only way that an organism (or conversation, or relationship, etc.) can cease evolving is if it dies altogether.

I am careful of using the word "evolution" in conjunction with relationships, however. One of the alternate definitions is "a set of prescribed movements." If the movements are TOO prescribed (i.e., "by the book," mechanical) more often than not people sense it. That's when they feel like just another customer. No sparks in that. And rarely any commitment to the relationship. "Just another customer" all too often seeks out more than "just another provided."

Everyone likes to feel special and appreciated, don't they? That's the bottom line.

Posted by Dan Gunter at October 7, 2009 7:05 AM

Very good post Steve. What also is evident is how dangerous one bad "date" can be. Unlike Drew Barrymore, we remember the next morning, and may be dating elsewhere.

Posted by Bruce at October 7, 2009 8:33 AM

One of the side effects of killing commissions is a decoupling of the retail sales clerk from caring whether a customer ever returns. Company's look for cost effective ways to create the impression of relationship, but that is a far thing from finding the motivational tools that would make employees care about anyone for longer than it takes to scan and bag a purchase.

Posted by Fred H Schlegel at October 7, 2009 9:19 AM

One may have shopped in the same clothing store for 20 years, but the employees at that store have probably been working there for less than one year. While I completely agree it's ridiculous for a company to keep forgetting about their customers, how do we bridge the gap between customer continuity and employee turnover? Many stores have "loyalty cards," but these look too obvious to the customer.

Any solutions?

Posted by Amanda Cullen at October 7, 2009 10:25 AM

My response is get a life. If you find it so important that people whose only real interest in you is to income remember your name, maybe you need some actual friends.

Posted by zorro at October 7, 2009 2:56 PM

Amanda, perhaps this isn't as feasible (but then again, with all our technology, why not?) Many years ago, bars started utilizing software that would store a customer's name along with a list of their favorite drink(s), which could be quickly accessed and mixed to that particular customer's liking. Mr. B's put out totally free software of that type and gave it to their bar clients. Why couldn't the software used in a store have the same information (collected from the card applications) and when the customer's card is scanned, the clerk sees basic info on the terminal and in turn says something like "It says here you have three children. I hope they're all doing well."

Would a customer sometimes see this as a phony endeavor toward endearment? Maybe. But I believe that more often than not such gestures create sudden changes in tone in the employee/customer interaction.

It could just as easily bring up something like the most frequent department for that customer's purchases. For example, "Mrs. Jones, I see you do a lot of shopping in our linens. Did you notice we have several of our high thread count sheet sets at 25% off this week only?"

Just thinking.

Posted by Dan Gunter at October 7, 2009 3:40 PM

Jay … and, obviously, they’d prescribe your wife ibrufen on a return visit. (Great to see you here! I may have a speech in Bangalore in January - hope we can meet.)

Dan … love your connection to the effects of the observer on the observed, and how people in genuine dialogue can’t help but affect each other. It’s how you create spontaneity and the feeling that this is a unique encounter that has never happened before.

Fred/Amanda/Dan … I think the common thread in your comments (no pun intended on Dan’s linens example) is that a strong brand culture and strong customer relationship-building culture can transcend anyone employee and any one moment in time, especially when systems support it. Here’s an example: I can go to 10 different Apple stores in 10 different cities and be served by 10 different employees, and each one of them will be able to send my receipt to the specific email address I’ve given Apple. They could also all tell me which of my products are still under warranty, and many other things about my relationship with Apple. They’re a big company, and they can still have a continuity between our “dates.” (Amanda – I know you use to work in an Apple store, so please chime in.)

Posted by Steve Yastrow at October 7, 2009 10:01 PM

Hi Steve

Looking forward to your visit!

Jay

Posted by Jayakumar Hariharan at October 8, 2009 1:49 AM

Dear : Tom Peters
We are tabulating the Leadership Guru Results for the 2010 leadership gurus, and as one of our nominees, we recommend you get your fans to vote for you at: www.leadershipgurus.net
While votes only represent 50% of your ranking, your writings, global contribution and “guru factor” are equally as important.

Athena Patrizzi

Posted by Athena Patrizzi at October 8, 2009 3:34 AM

Steve, your latest comment above has me thinking about times when I've gone into a business that I've frequented for years to discover a new employee will be assisting me. I'm delighted if they ask questions like "So, are you one of our regular customers?" I'm not offended that they don't already know. In fact, I'm delighted that they show interest and WANT to know. On the other hand, if they act indifferent to me, I get a different feeling entirely. I recall one electronics supplier up in Birmingham that never quoted me retail prices. I called one day and got a new sales rep who started giving me pricing that was like 40% higher than I'd been getting. When I asked him about it, his reply was something to the effect of "Well, I don't know who gets special pricing and who doesn't, so I just quote the shelf price to be safe."

Safe???

It's a safe bet that some of their long standing customers started purchasing gear and parts somewhere else, thinking they'd simply jacked their prices up. Perhaps a printout near the phone of a list of key customers would have been helpful for him?

"Good morning, XYZ Electronics. How can we help you today?"

"Hi, this is Dan Gunter down in Opelika."

(Flipping to the G's) "Hi, Dan. This is Greg. I took Rick's place, so I'll be helping you now. How are things going for you and East Alabama Media these days?" (He's winning points.)

"Great. Greg, I need 150' of coaxial cable and six BNC connectors."

"Sure, Dan. Since you're a reseller, you get 40% off. So that would run..."

*** It's easy to do things to help your team stay ahead of the game to risk losing business and good customer relations. Even when it's not "easy," it's still worth doing.

Posted by Dan Gunter at October 8, 2009 7:31 AM

Athena - Thanks for letting us know.

Posted by Shelley Dolley at October 8, 2009 7:41 AM

Great post Steve,

I think what it also points out is how we feel when it is apparent the store wants to know us.

If we feel the store is just going through the motions then there is less of a compunction for us to respond in any form of commitment back to the retailer.

A store that trains its people to "act" better gets better results than a place that just goes through the motions.

We generally feel better about something when we are engaged , even if in a superficial manner.

Posted by Bill Gardner at October 8, 2009 8:28 AM

Bill, well stated. If we can lean back to the relationship element, many experts point out that if you want better relationships (such as marriages, friendships, etc.) the easiest way to start is by acting in more loving, caring, concerned ways. Although the word "act" can arguably be interpreted as meaning hollow gestures intended merely for effect, it is true that if you consciously "act" in a certain way long enough, it affects you on a subconscious level (i.e., it becomes habit.)

That should hold true for the way we treat customers and clients; moreover, as I alluded to in my own blogs recently, what we might even deem to be trivial little acts and issues can often be of great importance to the person on the other end. It's safer and more beneficial to assume that our little things are BIG things to the other person.

Yes, the genius is in the details, as they say. Sometimes it pays to sweat the small stuff, at least in regards to actions we want to yield positive reactions.

Posted by Dan Gunter at October 8, 2009 8:56 AM

Hi Steve,

You are right on the money here - the dating analogy is spot on - businesses that treat each contact as if it is the first date do better than those that do the opposite.

Madonna's hit 'Like a Virgin' sums up the attitude of freshness that businesses need to succeed, even if the song has got nothing to do with customer relationship management! :-)

Some while ago I wrote to Dell about their rather unusual online chat up technique. After asking you your name, address, e-mail, the 4th question on their online purchase algorithm was 'Are you intending to use our product for terrorism? Yes or No?' Imagine that being the 4th question on a 1st date!??$%$£

I do understand why they must ask the question, but why question No 4 and why not 'Have you read our terms and conditions? which could cover all the legal stuff.

Business is relationships and we can learn a lot from the study of dating and long term relationships to help us have longer lasting business affairs.

Very best

Peter

Posted by Peter Cook at October 8, 2009 10:08 AM

Great thought-provoking post. Yeah, I think if we approach customers or clients on our best behavior, we could see some positive results and provide better service.

Posted by Tim at October 8, 2009 10:35 AM

That's an excellent comparison. Building an on-going relationship is critical for doing business these days. It's so easy for your customers to go elsewhere if they don't like something about your offering. The hardest part about forming relationships with your customers is that it takes a long time to cultivate and develop but it only takes 1 bad experience to ruin it.

Posted by Elizabeth at October 8, 2009 12:31 PM

I greatly enjoyed hearing about Dell's cunning question 4. With security like that.... It reminded me of the story about Gilbert Harding, a BBC star of the 50s and 60s renowned for his dry sense of humour. On a trip to the US the immigration form asked him "Is it your intention to overthrow the government of the United States?" Harding's reply: "Sole purpose of visit."

Posted by RobCH at October 8, 2009 12:49 PM

RobCH, that is TOO funny. As bad as writing "would like to get to know you better first" in reply to "Sex?" on a job application.

Truly great thoughts flowing in this thread. I'm loving it. Thanks to all of you for fueling my thinking on this.

Posted by Dan Gunter at October 8, 2009 1:24 PM

My 16 year old son, Noah, received a birthday card from his Summer camp yesterday. When he opened the envelope it looked like a generic card, but when he opened the card it had a picture, printed on the inside, of him playing guitar at camp, flanked by his two best friends.

Next year is the year he "graduates" from camper to counselor in training, where he (I mean we) pay for him to go to camp, have some supervisory responsibility, clean toilets, and he still gets to have some camper-type fun. Yes, we still have to pay, even though he is working part of the time.

But ... by adding this element in the ongoing conversation, they really touched him. He told me that after he realized what they did he felt "a lone tear quivering on my pale cheek" (yes, Noah has an awesome sense of humor) . We had already agreed that he would pay part of his camp tuition next year, and at this point he feels like it will be money well-spent.

How often can a 16-year old feel like he is in an ongoing conversation with a business?

Posted by Steve Yastrow at October 8, 2009 4:41 PM

Yep. The photo made it feel personal. And personal makes all the difference. Most excellent example.

Posted by Dan Gunter at October 8, 2009 7:21 PM

Right that's it I am not shopping at XYZ electronics ever again! It appears that Dan gets a 40% discount and I don't - I am not happy with this situation and I am taking my $12.75 electronic equipment spending budget somewhere else.

Am I the only person who finds a business "getting to know me" a bit freaky. I mean I understand it from my local pub or cafe where I am a regular but I feel wierd when a big company tries to do this.

A good business person needs to be tuned to the attitude of the customer - some people don't actually want you to do this stuff. A good restaurant is an example of this. The Missus and I had a rare (i.e. without kids)lunch time meal this week at a great restaurant (Pepe Sale in Reading UK to get the plug in). The owner was quite chatty with some of the tables but knew to leave us to ourselves for a bit of us time.

An Emotionally intelligent business not only knows how to do this stuff it also knows when to and when not to.

Posted by PaulH at October 9, 2009 3:27 AM

As we are on the 'dumber and dumber' examples of what does not work in business relationships, here's another from the UK hi fi chain Currys.

Man goes into store, tries to buy cable, finds items, goes to checkout with item. Sales assistant scans item and says 'Sorry it's not in stock'

Man is surprised and says 'but I have one'

Assistant repeats 'but it's not in stock'

This goes on for some time. Manager is called, man explains that he has the item, manager scans item and says 'It's not in stock'.

Man suggests he takes the item as it is 'not in stock'. Manager suggests that this would be theft.

And on and on

It beggars belief! We still have some way to go on emotional literacy! lol

Peter

Posted by Peter Cook at October 9, 2009 5:50 AM

Peter - I think I know that store Manager :-)

Reminds me of the story of the man many years ago who went to his local car scrap yard to pick up a recycled driver’s side door the Ford Cortina.

The scrap yard owner said it would be £30 but that he didn’t have any in stock right now.

So the man went to the scrap yard a few miles away and asked the same question. This time the answer came back from the old guy in charge – “Yep we have one in the yard Sir – that’ll be £100.”

The customer looked disappointed and said – ‘But down the road I could have picked up the same door for £30 from another scrap yard.’

The old guy said – ‘Well why didn’t you get one there?’

The customer replied - ‘Cos they hadn’t got one in stock’

The old guy scratched his head, looked the customer in the eye and said, knowingly….

‘Yeh mine are £30 each as well when I don’t have any in stock’

Have a great weekend Peter :-)

Posted by Trevor Gay at October 9, 2009 1:28 PM

Hi Trevor, Great story about scrap yards. I can almost hear Bruce Springsteen singing about the sorry debacle! :-)

Posted by Peter Cook at October 9, 2009 2:32 PM

Oh, Steve, this is one of my big gripes! I go into my local McDonalds every Friday morning and have done for two years - I have silver grey hair and am accompanied by my blonde-ringletted, blue-eyed 3-year old granddaughter. A memorable combo I would think. I am (barely) greeted by the same girl at McCafe every time like she has never seen me before...

Posted by Karen from Sydney at October 14, 2009 10:09 PM